Game Dev without a Mentor is impossible for me

Have you considered a traditional college class, maybe through something like Coursera? Or a computer science class at your local community college if that's where your hangups tend to be? Different people have different learning styles, some folks can't sit still for a lecture and need to go off on their own tangents, others might make more progress going through a prepared syllabus of do A in week one, then B in week two, then C in week three. I think one of the problems with online tutorials is that they tend to be pretty scattershot in terms of level, and it's easy to waste time on tutorials that either cover stuff you already know, or are assume knowledge you don't have yet and therefore are hard to follow, and then you end up feeling like you've gone through a ton of tutorials and didn't learn anything. Doesn't mean you're stupid, might just mean that online tutorials aren't the best for your learning style.

this is more a problem of managing expectations and self confidence than it is talent or skill.

there's plenty of people in this forum that struggle the same way you do, I certainly do, but I can get past it because I knew going in that it was gonna be difficult. it's also good to be aware that the people who are around but don't know how to answer questions aren't gonna answer them. that's what gives you the illusion that everyone here is talented.

heck, I have two questions sitting completely unanswered on this forum right now. one of them's been that way for over a month. if I sit down and look at that objectively, my only options are to either try it a different way or work on some other part of my game. so I am. I'm working on other parts while I wait for people to figure out godot 4 better, and if I run out of other things to do while waiting then I'll rework that part into something I can figure out.

every musician, artist, dancer, anything you can think of, all of them started out bad. this is no different.

as for escaping tutorial hell, that's something you can only do by working on your own non-tutorial projects. all of my biggest leaps of learning came from when I made a full fledged game-game and not another pong clone. the fact that you've made a flappy bird clone, buggy or not, is a major accomplishment and absolutely in the right direction. if you want proof of that then try making another one and see how much faster it goes compared to the first time!

Keep your head up mate. You're going to feel stupid while figuring some of this stuff out- so when you actually do figure it out I promise you'll feel like a regular genius. A flappy bird clone is a great and smart way to start; just don't stop!

you do not have the right to give up your own aspirations, perseverance is essential, few achieve their goals overnight, an example is the Iconoclasts game was made by a single person who took 8 years to complete it.

Programming, in general, is a very frustrating path.

samuraidan this is more a problem of managing expectations and self confidence than it is talent or skill.

Yes.

OP you are not alone.

Resilience to frustration is a muscle we, as programmers, have to develop to overcome hard moments.

Maybe try to learn very fundamental programming. Then back to Godot stronger !

Fruitdude i don’t think giving up your dream is a good answer. That’s an inner critic talking. We all have them.

The problem may be the tutorials themselves. The issue with these is while they show you how to make “a game,” you’re just doing copy work essentially. Copying a book of nuclear fusion by hand does not make you a nuclear physicist.

Game developing is DEVELOPING. It’s not one idea or concept but many shoved together in some form. You go in thinking you’re gonna make Pokemon when you don’t realize that game took a huge building full of people to make (yes even Generation 1) and it almost bricked their computers when they ran it. Games are made by teams - you may not be a programmer but dev teams are MANY disciplines. Find what piece you excel at. You’d be amazed how many people make a living just making menus. (somebody does it!)

Neil Gaiman says writers write. Developers develop. Make games not for others, but yourself until you get confident. Make games even if they’re crap because we don’t get good by being great at something off the bat - we learn by being terrible at it and learning from what we did wrong. Break things. Make mistakes. And take notes. You learn just as much from a disaster as you do from a success.

I, like you, was not a programmer. Programming books are a great help though (though strangely there is a dearth of Godot specific material in solid form at least, especially for v4) and this forum has been spectacular as well. Also - it’s ok to need a mentor. I recommend the videos of Masahiro Sakurai as well as the book Game Programming Patterns, which is free and well written from a developer’s standpoint.

All in all, you are only guaranteed to fail if you quit.

SnapCracklins the problem with godot and programming books is that making a book takes so long that by the time you're done writing it a new version is out and half of it is useless.

which is a problem with every programming book, really. C and java books and whatnot could only exist because progress wasn't so rapid back then (-w-

although oddly enough there is a godot book in japanese which is the only one I could ever find. you can even get it physical if it's ever in stock again.

Start simple and stay at it. Do tutorials and then make changes to them.

To be honest, I understand you very well. I finished a 2D tutorial and I think my head is empty again. It's like the only thing I can (barely) memorize is the main building blocks of Godot and some theory...
At some point, I realized that I never had this problem at school or uni... What was different? I was younger, brighter or just less stupid... Am I too old too learn or what? And then it got me. I didn't make any reusable notes. The only way to use my knowledge in a reference way is to go back to the tutorial.
So, one last time I will. I will re read the tutorial and prepare some algorithms for myself. From the most stupid like creating a project to the least. And I will get back to them until I will memorize it.
I think that once I understand the building blocks, I will be able to properly use them and break down my ideas. And with each activity noted it should be easier to do so.
But I think I will note them in Notion instead of a handbook :-D
Maybe you should try it, too?

Fruitdude You all seem so talented and it always looks so easy to other people. Guess I have to give up the dream, the dream that kept me alive since i'm a kid.

Doesn't even Godot Engine help? What a surprise! (excuse my irony, I had my share of experience with Godot).

You might be thinking that Godot is your ultimate savior, but as others have mentioned, I would suggest starting with a programming course. Most game engines out there, even one like Godot Engine, weren't originally designed as a learning tool. Its simplicity may be alluring, but may not be enough for learning purposes.

You might also need to stop comparing yourself to others temporarily. Personally, don't follow what other people make as much, since I have a clear goal for my own projects, whatever it takes to achieve it. Above all, establish a compelling goal for yourself. This goal should possess enough power to motivate and drive you to engage in learning.

To summarize, learning programming can seem dull, but it doesn't have to be that way if you can adopt the growth mindset. This mindset will also help you to fix issues yourself, as you will find more confidence. Instead of viewing failures as signs of inadequacy, you'll see them as challenges to overcome, leading to greater strength and growth. Begin with small steps and appreciate any progress you make.

samuraidan I'm working on other parts while I wait for people to figure out godot 4 better, and if I run out of other things to do while waiting then I'll rework that part into something I can figure out.

The problem is that waiting can be seen as a manifestation of unevenly distributed power dynamics. Frequently, the less powerful find themselves waiting on the more powerful, or the poor waiting on the wealthy. In this context, waiting essentially highlights our dependence on others.

I learned how to program by typing other people's programs out of computer magazines into a compucolor 64 and running them. Of course, this was back when a computer with a 64-color screen was amazing. It worked for me because I wasn't concerned with making things move or animate or play cut scenes -- I started with text in and text out -- very simple.

The amazing capabilities godot offers can get in the way of learning the basics. A game doesn't actually require most of that nonsense. Once you learn to think in terms of computer logic, you can move on to all the complex stuff.

And although I did take programming classes eventually (I started by typing up hollerith cards for a big mainframe), they didn't help all that much. I learned mainly by trying something again and again until I figured it out.

Game Dev is hard. It requires various different skills (programming, art, game design, etc.) and you often have to use techniques that are looked down upon in other areas of software development - because games are messy!
This makes it really easy feel lost and overwhelmed.
But, as with many other things, repetition is key! When you do a Flappy Bird clone for the first time, you might spend few hours just getting the bird to fly and fall down, which can be devastating. But later, when you'll want to make a game with an airplane, you'll see some similarities to the bird physics and it will be easier. Having previous experience makes future work so much easier.
If you prefer more structured learning, I agree with other users that you should try to learn more programming fundamentals. Maybe a beginner computer science course (e.g., CS50) and then more abstract ideas (for example Game Programming Patterns).
I assure that all of us were in the same place. Every dancer had to learn how to walk, every singer had to learn how to speak. Don't give up on doing what you love!

This thread has moved wildly off topic. Let us please only continue to post on the thread if it pertains to @Fruitdude original message. Any conversation about word choice and individual's vocabulary is not relevant and shouldn't be discussed.

Xrayez I could illustrate how I tackled the root cause behind @Fruitdude's disappointment as expressed in the original message using the topics I brought up.

I do not disagree with you. I believe that your original post was directly correlated to what the OP started the thread about. I also believe that you provided some useful perspective for them.

retroshark This thread has moved wildly off topic.

I am referring to all of the replies that transpired from there. Although stemming from the original topic - each post moved further away as all parties involved were trying to share their disagreeing perspectives. For this reason I have removed all the off-topic posts from all the parties after your original reply on the thread.

Never give up your dreams. If you need help understanding something don't hesitate to ask. If you need help on making a game, I love to help out by collaborating together. I have a Bachelor Degree in Information Technology and I would love to collaborate on a project. I am new to Godot and Game dev stuff, but I find it fun and challenging. A few pointers is never doubt what you can do. All things take practice. I learned how to play the guitar in a year, with no teacher just so I could add music to my game projects. I am rusty with drawing but I still have talent in that area as well. Keep practicing, do some Leet Code after you are comfortable with a programming language, find time to practice and learn all you can about it. Learn the frameworks and build the game project. If you never programming and terminal program before, I suggest you grind that as well because once you got the fundamentals down, coding is easy. The hard part is designing your project and see it through . Also if you have not already, get a pyshics and math books, because learning math will sharpen your thinking. Last but not least, I recommend reading books for entertainment and knowledge because reading sharpens your brain after so long.

samuraidan
Books work, once you learn the fundamentals, you can modify the tutorials for your use. I learned how to program ALLEGRO5 using a book that was written for ALLEGRO4. The framework changed greatly , but its still possible. for the latest thing, I would learn from the documentation and practice. Reading sharpens the mind, I would not underestimate it. A person knew to programming can learn a lot from an old book. Outside of programming, I think learning algorithms is way more important. Languages are only tools. I use C++ with ALLEGRO5 in my attempt to make games from scratch. I am even learning how to program in Assembly just for fun and deeper understanding of how computers work. I find it amazing that in assembly, you are assigning references to register in your computer and then you have to dereference them to access data.