samuraidan just make two basic NPCs in a house that follow a routine and occasionally interact with each other. then, if you manage to finish that, imagine scaling that to an entire town.

Why imagine? Yep, that's the concept I intend to follow.

samuraidan for the most part people who want to play the sims play the sims. and then keep playing the sims. and then buying the bazillion expansion packs. and then adding in mods. and they never branch out because the sims is practically endless.

I look at the situation "from the inside" and it is not quite so. If you give players the ability to create and share content, a lot of people will drop the Sims for a game like this.

Did you know that Sims players create a kind of visual novels? One of my tutorial games is based on that kind of work.

If players can easily(!) create such novels in 3D — it will be a significant advantage of the project.

And, Warzone 2100 is also a fairly well-known game.

    Tomcat

    I look at the situation "from the inside" and it is not quite so. If you give players the ability to create and share content, a lot of people will drop the Sims for a game like this.

    there's not enough of those around to sustain any commercial effort given how much work it would take, is my point. sure, they exist, but as a rule there's more consumers than creators. your view from the inside is kind of warped by being on the inside. you see a disproportionate amount of people who want that because you're in a place where they congregrate. the ones who are happy with it just keep playing.

    And, Warzone 2100 is also a fairly well-known game.

    I never hear anyone talk about it outside of FOSS gaming. can you give me some examples of people who aren't usually involved with such things talking about it?

      samuraidan there's not enough of those around to sustain any commercial effort given how much work it would take

      That's the point I'm trying to clarify.

      your view from the inside is kind of warped by being on the inside. you see a disproportionate amount of people who want that because you're in a place where they congregrate. the ones who are happy with it just keep playing.

      The site is basically about the Sims. All versions. Including technical problems. Both game and general computer issues. And I've heard some pretty different opinions. The question is, are there enough people interested in the alternative? Given the total number of Sims players, statistically, there should be quite a few potentially interested.

      can you give me some examples of people who aren't usually involved with such things talking about it?

      Official Russian-speaking community on VK.com

      VK (vkontakte) is in no way related to FOSS

        Normally, you have to make a game different enough so it attracts attention otherwise it looks like a knock off. Making a Sims clone is like making a Bethesda game clone where a huge team spent years on it. The animation system it would need. The amount of programming to get any kind of lifelike behavior. They spent years on it. Sure, you can get some free models and get something, but selling it? You don't see an Indy game doing something like that because the scope is too large. The best thing to do is pick out some indy games that did a good job and start from there so you have some idea of what is plausible.

          Tomcat

          The question is, are there enough people interested in the alternative? Given the total number of Sims players, statistically, there should be quite a few potentially interested

          probably not enough to sustain a major studio, but an indie project... possibly. I could see it happening if it wasn't a 100% carbon copy and had some kind of unique selling point.

          VK (vkontakte) is in no way related to FOSS

          oh, it's popular in russia. that's a huge blind spot for me.

          fire7side I'm gonna switch gears and go positive for a second: smaller teams can cut corners in a way the bigger ones can't. no voice acting is a fourth of the overall work cut.

          in fact, thinking on it, it might be a cool idea to make it some kind of life-sim that wasn't about human people but about something else that could excuse moments of less-than-stellar AI. like a zombie life sim, or a robot life sim, or something. it doesn't have to be about humans.

            samuraidan You are already cutting down scope. If it doesn't look like the sims, and it can work on a simpler animation system without voice, that's at least possible. Animals would be forgiving and different also.

            fire7side Sure, you can get some free models and get something, but selling it?

            "It's clear no one is even reading or comprehending what I'm saying here." ©️ 😿

            "some free models"??!!! 🙀

            One of the features of such a game can be the presence of built-in constructors for creating in-game content that will attract the attention of players who want to independently expand the game — Generators of characters, buildings, vegetation.

            fire7side Normally, you have to make a game different enough so it attracts attention otherwise it looks like a knock off.

            "different enough" will be in the ability of users to create their own environment. Almost entirely. Commercial developers will never go for this, for the reason that it will reduce their income. They would rather sell DLS (like EA).

            I'm also going to work on social and economic relations, so that the game would be closer to a real simulation of society for social experiments (which is not yet at all), but this is in the long term.

            For now I envision using MakeHuman for characters, Sweet Home 3D for buildings and Tree It for vegetation.

            I was actually going to announce my project a bit later, when I'd have something to show. The recent storm here has sped that up considerably. But if you don't like my suggestion, you can suggest something else. I'll create a separate thread for my project when I'm ready.

            samuraidan like a zombie life sim, or a robot life sim, or something.

            Yup, users can replace humans with robots or zombies. I don't like zombies, but I'll think about robots. Thanks for the idea!

            oh, it's popular in russia. that's a huge blind spot for me.

            Soon it will be a few small spots.

              Tomcat Those programs give very bland, generic results. I've used them all. Having the users create their own environment makes it even more complex. You have to have everything the sims does plus. I haven't even played the Sims, but I remember when it came out they were bragging about the millions of lines of code in it. Here's a great idea. We'll all wait until you show us a proof of concept, if you can get a few people to help out, great. Then you can be project leader because I agree if any project has a chance of completion, you can only have one project leader. This really reminds me of the people on game sites that want to make a MMO and do everything the latest greatest does plus so much more.

                fire7side Having the users create their own environment makes it even more complex.

                Yeah, definitely, especially at first. In the beginning, it will be difficult for users to create their own content. If I can convince the developers of Sweet Home 3D to make exporting models a little easier, it will make it much easier to create houses. But, most likely, at the initial stages, buildings will need to be made in a separate program and transferred to the game. Which is not easy.

                samuraidan just make two basic NPCs in a house that follow a routine and occasionally interact with each other

                Actually such a game has already been. It was called Singles (can I not give a link to it? 😊 ). I need, for starters, just to repeat it with minor changes. Mostly with customizable characters.

                fire7side We'll all wait until you show us a proof of concept

                I am wary of giving any timelines, for as there has been precedent here, there may be accusations of lying.

                wouldn't it make more sense to make importing models from outside software easier, rather than integrating it into the game itself? that would be easier on everyone, including the content creators who already have their workflows, I would think.

                  samuraidan wouldn't it make more sense to make importing models from outside software easier, rather than integrating it into the game itself?

                  I doubt it — lots of different interactions between different types of content are expected... but it will all be prototyped.

                  But in the beginning it will probably be just that, just importing from other programs... except for characters.

                  My suggestion was to be able to export to glTF.

                  that would be easier on everyone, including the content creators who already have their workflows, I would think.

                  The workflow that content creators use now is probably not going to work in any way.

                  13 days later

                  el_malo any news?

                  News about what? Voting reset (probably due to forum migration), but there voted that the game is not needed.

                  I will try to create a prototype of what I suggested… but it will be very, very not soon.