Xrayez What do you think about it?

Nuke it from orbit.

Xrayez According to Clay John at Godot Contributors Chat, core maintainers are beginning to consider adding telemetry into Godot

Who? I presume he's one of them, since he called it "a productive discussion". Whoever they are, perhaps they ought to be gatekept out of the PLC to send a clear message. It's contentious but sometimes it has to be done.

    10 days later

    synthnostate Who? I presume he's one of them

    Sure, as I said, Clay John is an official member of Godot PLC, see Governance page at Godot's official website. They represent The Board of Directors. Everyone you see listed there should be treated as an official representative of Godot. He also works at for-profit W4 Games founded by Juan Linietsky (lead developer of Godot) and others, according to information from Godot Foundation.

    So, if I were you, I'd treat the information provided by Clay John thoughtfully. Considering that W4 Games specializes in providing online services for Godot, the topic of telemetry makes sense in this context.

      Telemetry is ideologically incompatible with free software. Whoever actively advocates shoehorning any kind of telemetry into a project like Godot is generally out of their mind, or has a dubious agenda.

        Xrayez I've noticed he's a pretty major code contributor. Still, that doesn't automatically justify his actions any more than it did your actions that got you gatekept. If he's wrong, he's wrong.

        @cybereality may have been off the mark with his rants about W4 funding, however, all this money being thrown at Godot will surely destroy it if the leaders let it get to their heads. It happens to every big successful open source project. It's just a matter of time.

        xyz Telemetry is ideologically incompatible with free software.

        Telemetry is a tool. Nothing more. The question is how it is used and whether it can be canceled. Why it cannot be "ideologically compatible" with open source software when it can be disabled is the greatest mystery.

          Tomcat Clay John did say "opt-in telemetry" but that's a slippery slope especially for marketing. Let's look into this... is it for insight into compatibility and performance issues, or for marketing?

          Contrary to what OP said, you don't need an account to read https://chat.godotengine.org/channel/communication, but the message link doesn't work, you have to scroll up 10 or 20 pages as of now. It's the Communication (i.e. marketing) channel, and yes the context is download numbers.

          Screenshots for those who can't be bothered:

          Click to reveal Click to hide




          Contrary to OP's implication, Clay John is clearly NOT advocating for telemetry.

          Yuri Sizov (who OP would prefer be removed from leadership) said:

          Not tracking users is a point of principle for the organization
          While it limits the amount of data we can use to effectively make decision and develop the engine, or adjust the website for example, we think that the value of privacy is greater than that.

          I get the picture: OP is spreading FUD as usual. Godot leadership did nothing wrong.

            synthnostate Yuri Sizov (who OP would prefer be removed from leadership) said:

            Not tracking users is a point of principle for the organization

            Well, then there is no problem at all. Except the problem of the clumsy troll. 🧌

            synthnostate Contrary to OP's implication, Clay John is clearly NOT advocating for telemetry.

            This is your implication, not mine. Please don't put your words into my mouth. The quote is self-sufficient to indicate that the leadership had a productive discussion about some light, opt-in telemetry, nothing more. If you expect them to write an official announcement about such a decision, they likely won't do so, as they have learned from Audacity's case, where the community expressed extreme disapproval against telemetry in any form.

            So yes, the question becomes why Clay John had to say this in the first place, which led me to the idea that they might be adding telemetry to future products by W4 Games, such as the recently announced W4 Consoles. In either case, W4 does plan to provide matchmaking services that may necessitate adding telemetry.

            In either case, please recognize the difference between words vs actions. The question is how they're going to balance corporate needs vs open-source needs. Another company co-founded by Godot's leadership is Ramatak. If you read their first blog post:

            Since talk is cheap we set up Ramatak Inc. as a “Public benefits company”. For Ramatak this means that we will not be allowed to, for instance, “take back” contributions by making a piece of code we once released under an open source license proprietary in the future. In this way we feel that we can be a trustworthy member of the community.

            The credibility of all these assurances is well known. Godot leadership can be trusted. You don't have to worry about them operating all these for-profit companies behind your back. 🙃

              Xrayez This is your implication, not mine. Please don't put your words into my mouth. The quote is self-sufficient to indicate...

              No, you took that quote out of context.

                synthnostate Xrayez This is your implication, not mine. Please don't put your words into my mouth. The quote is self-sufficient to indicate...

                No, you took that quote out of context.

                Your incomplete quote of what I said could be considered out of context under a similar interpretation. But as you see, I don't blame you for quoting me out of context, because I understand the nature of Godot's community by now.

                What I've noticed is that in Godot community, everything is labeled out of context whenever quoting is utilized to expose questionable decisions... 🙃

                This is actually a typical behavior when people stumble upon conflicting information that creates cognitive dissonance, as they try to reconcile their initial expectations and beliefs with reality.

                  Xrayez
                  Ok... A warning has already been given since you failed to follow the rules multiple times. Again, you are out of line, now including the entire community. Not OK. As to violating rules 1, 2, 3, 4, and 9, You are now banned from the Forum.

                  I want to remind everyone to keep disagreements civil and respectful and not make assumptions about someone's implications. Instead, ask for a clarification. And if anyone feels misquoted, then respectfully correct the other person and include context, in a manner that doesn't invite further unnecessary conflict.

                  I struggle to see anything constructive in the last few posts, and it seems to be heading down the conspiracy/speculative territory. I'm locking this thread.

                  MikeCL locked the discussion .