How to hunt and solve bugs efficiently ?

xyz

I'd definitely rather explain it to a cat than to a rubber duck, but I wouldn't implement any suggestions the cat might have.

DaveTheCoder

xyz You can ask ai

😮

TwistedMind

@xyz

For the best chance to get your code debugged, post a Minimal Reproducible Project, as small as possible that clearly reproduces the problem.

Let me take the time to do that.

print everything, use breakpoints and debugger watches, reduce code to isolate buggy behavior, mentally follow what your code is doing

Got it.

You can ask ai to elaborate...

Ineffective.

@Toxe

if your architecture is too complex to explain chances are that it's, well, too complex...

@xyz

...beginners especially, think they're "smarter than that" and that they fully understand what they are doing, otherwise they won't be doing it that way, right?

If I could explain myself in English as well as I can in French, maybe things would be different. But it's not the case and very often, people don't give the chance to try.
French or not, arrogance and lack of empathy have no borders.

If people could just remember that written communication on the internet lacks nuance, and take a moment to understand before judging, maybe things would improve.

I’m not responsible for how others react but when those reactions sabotage the good intentions I try to bring, it becomes a problem for me.

And I don’t have the time to do everything all at once. I can't tolerate to always use a tool to communicate. I do my best, and I have priorities. That’s my business.

That’s my opinion. No need to start a debate about it.

@Toxe

..."faceAface" doesn't really convey meaning and as far as I am aware there is no word like "conturn" in the English dictionary...

Got it. Thanks.

@Toxe

Never use string identifiers like "move", "wait" etc. Use either const values or (preferably) Enums.

Why ?

@xyz

Rubber Duck Debugging...

I already do that.

Toxe

TwistedMind Why ?

Because of easy mistakes like typos:

if dir == "right ": print("going right")          # trailing space
if dir == "Ieft": print("going left")             # first letter in "Ieft" is a big "i"
if dir == "forword": print("going forward")       # typo
if dir == "backwards": print("going backward")    # or was it "backward"?

Most of these are hard to spot and easy to type wrong.

But if you use an Enum instead of strings then the compiler will warn you of any typo and your code won't even run, which is always the best.

xyz

TwistedMind You can ask ai to elaborate...

Ineffective.

How is asking a chatbot to give you a summary of various debugging techniques "ineffective"? If "ai" should be used for anything at all, it's rehashing and compacting well known generalized information. It's an almost ideal use case for llms as it doesn't require problem solving and has large vagueness/bullshit margins.

xyz

TwistedMind Rubber Duck Debugging...

I already do that.

Write it down and post it here then.

TwistedMind

Understood.

About my previous code... why it is considered as "too long" ? All lines is necessary, so I don"t "see" how I can optimize then. The units controlled by the player must reacts differently between units controlled by AI, so I must separate then and copy the conditions and actions.

So I really don't know how to do better...

xyz

TwistedMind About my previous code... why it is considered as "too long" ?

It's "too long" for posting on forums and expecting someone to spend their time analyzing and debugging it. Especially if they can't run it.

Toxe

TwistedMind About my previous code... why it is considered as "too long" ? All lines is necessary, so I don"t "see" how I can optimize then. The units controlled by the player must reacts differently between units controlled by AI, so I must separate then and copy the conditions and actions.

It's not about optimization, it's about readability. If I see a ginormous block of code with too many if/else and levels of indentation I immediately cannot follow (and so won't you one year from now) and probably won't spend the time to scroll around and learn what is happening.

But something like this would help a lot:

if state == Condition1:
    turn_on_the_radio()
elif state == Condition2:
    feed_the_cat()
elif state == Condition3:
    feed_the_cat()
    scare_the_neighbor_kid()
elif state == Condition4:
    buy_bird_feed()
    if extra_state == SomethingElse:
        feed_the_cat()
        feed_the_birds()

This gives a much better top down view about your behaviour and program states.

And now every single one of those functions can be 10'ish lines or whatever, which makes them a lot easier to understand.

TwistedMind

xyz Because it's a bot: if you give it incomplete information, it gives incomplete answers. It can't anticipate situations like a human can, after all.

@Toxe, it's my fear of the for loop that forces me to think differently. I see it like that: make one loop for all and not repeat it each time, or not make too much loops in loops. A match can be done too, if the situation allow it.

xyz

TwistedMind xyz Because it's a bot: if you give it incomplete information, it gives incomplete answers. It can't anticipate situations like a human can, after all.

I said to ask it to give you a list of general debugging techniques, not to let it debug your actual code. The former it can do well, the latter - not really.

Toxe

TwistedMind it's my fear of the for loop that forces me to think differently

What's there to fear about a for loop? Also there were no loops in my example.

TwistedMind A match can be done too, if the situation allow it.

A match is just syntactic sugar for if/else and has nothing to do with loops.

I think you are spending too much time thinking about stuff that doesn't matter (yet). First priority should be to keep your code simple and easy to change, get your logic working and not making too much of a mess. And after everything is working as it should you can think about performance. But don't guess! Measure it! There is a build-in profiler for a reason. Just don't optimize prematurely.

DaveTheCoder

xyz the latter - not really.

It depends.

Gemini doesn't seem to be well-trained in Godot, especially concerning differences among the Godot versions.

But it's very good at debugging Flutter/Dart code, at least in my case.

However, it sometimes goes off on weird tangents, so you can't rely on it completely.

TwistedMind

Hello,

I check all my scripts to make a proper code, just let me the time needed to do it.

TwistedMind

Hello everyone,

I don't know if I should make a new topic...
Here we are: I cleaned up my code and translated some parts of it.

So, to reming you of the problem:

Some units collide with friendly units instead to waiting for the next path to clear.
When units move to the opposite side of friendly units, they should go around them. Sometimes it works when two units are side by side, it's hard to explain in words.
Some units detect "holes" in their path si I've added an "emergency stop process" to avoid errors. I don't understand why my code doesn't always fill or bypass these holes.
These problems occur randomly — I can’t find a way to reproduce them manually.

The controls:

You play as blue player, the ennemy is red.
Use the arrow keys to move the camera. Use the mouse to control units and issue orders, like in a classic RTS.
Use the dozer to instantly build a house to add obstacles.

Note:

Use Godot 3.5.1! Why? Because I don't have time to constantly adapt my code every time the Godot devs decide to change something. It’s frustrating to keep facing “random” issues that aren’t even mine.
Unzip the file, move it to your project folder, and import it into the engine.
Download the "cfg" (config) file and place it where your engine executable is, it's required.
I don't think it's necessary to translate all my scripts, but if you need me to translate something specific, just tell me which one.
Depending on your experience as a coder, some parts may look... chaotic, and some names may sound confusing. That's because I use words that make sens to me. I admit some names are based on how I understand things, and I don't have a "coach" to tell me what's right or wrong.

SScripts you need to check:

unitMoveFunc
All the Astar scripts in the astar folder, except astarRemRock

It might be a tough task.

If you have any questions or need any information, take your time and ask.
I hope I haven't forgotten anything.

Game file
Config file

xyz

TwistedMind So what's the question here? You want someone else to debug your entire code? That likely won't happen.

The problem is probably in the whole algorithmic approach. The only solution in that case is "back to the drawing board".

TwistedMind

You're interpreting things I never said explicitely. How can you understand what I'm looking for if you don't allow me to show you?

I understand that debugging can fell like a waste of time, but I don’t think I should be blamed for making an effort on my own.

So, would you be kind enough to explain how you envision building that algorithm ? And if something isn't clear, please ask me exactly what you need to know.

xyz

TwistedMind What's your question again?
If you need help with algorithm, explain your current algorithm in its entirety. Preferably by rubberducking.

TwistedMind

Not just one question, several actually.
I played a game yesterday, and something came to my mind :

The first problem was how to build a path from A to B without holes, and it seems I was taking the problem in the wrong direction. I changed my code, it seems to work now, but I need to run more tests.
The second issue I'm currently working on is how a friendly unit should move around another one that's out of fuel. I'm on it, but I need some time to write the code.

xyz

TwistedMind We don't live in your head. Either present the problem in a clear, complete way with all of the relevant context or stop wasting everyone's time. "I wrote a bunch of code and now it doesn't work. Help!" - won't cut it. Noone can/will help you with that. Especially when they see your code that has over 10(!) levels of if nesting. It's a nightmare.

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