modern day tables are not built like they are used to.. mine certainly wont be able to support this ..

    Question is, how can we simulate this today?

    • xyz replied to this.

      gocat Scanlines can be simulated with a shader for sure. However, for the authentic experience you'd want your head irradiated by the high energy, marginally harmful, trinitron electron beam. Not sure how to simulate that 🤔

          xyz idk if you can do this on modern lcd's.. adding scan lines is garbage.. you would think it makes sense but in reality is does not..

          On crts you dont see scan lines.. maybe if you put your eyeball next to the tube other than that you sit like 3 feet away from it and barely notice them.. so in reality you dont need no scan lines

              kuligs2 modern day tables are not built like they are used to.. mine certainly wont be able to support this ..

              In Russia and Ukraine they say — "when you take it in your hands, you feel the Thing".

              xyz However, for the authentic experience you'd want your head irradiated by the high energy, marginally harmful, trinitron electron beam.

              As for "the high energy, marginally harmful, trinitron electron beam" — everyone knows that this radiation is completely neutralized by cacti. So it can be neglected.

              • xyz replied to this.

                    Tomcat As for "the high energy, marginally harmful, trinitron electron beam" — everyone knows that this radiation is completely neutralized by cacti. So it can be neglected.

                    We used crystal pyramids made of plexiglass for that.
                    But the question here is not how to neutralize. It's how to re-create it on a lcd 🙂

                    @kuligs2 Yeah the scanlines are barely noticeable when you look at it. It that respect the video @Tomcat posted is actually misleading as all footage is zoomed in quite a bit, making scanlines much more pronounced than what'd you perceive by looking at the crt monitor. The video itself stated it is simulated by a hardware scaler. The same look can certainly be achieved using a shader.

                        xyz It's how to re-create it on a lcd

                        What I was trying to say is that if it is insignificant, and also neutralized, there is no need to simulate it.

                        And LCD should be forgotten — it's an extremely outdated technology. OLEDs are now relevant.

                        • xyz replied to this.

                            xyz Well… let's just say… I have enough enemies in real life that I don't want to see more of them in games. 😼

                              kuligs2 idk if you can do this on modern lcd's.. adding scan lines is garbage.. you would think it makes sense but in reality is does not..

                              It's not just scanlines. The best CRT monitors had real good geometric/crystalline structure to the pixels. All of it could be emulated with a shader, but you'd need a really good monitor with good color gamut, brightness/contrast ratio and a very high resolution. Rendering SD and upscaling via CRT screen shader to 4K would borderline give enough pixels to work with to maybe decently emulate a CRT like look and feel.

                              But I suspect before 8K monitors become standard it'll still be a struggle. Each of the emulated CRT pixels would require enough pixels to truly emulate all the things happening to the light passing through the screen. Think aberration and diffraction effects too, not just scan lines and R G B W subpixel patterns.

                              Another thing before I forget it is that good CRT's had really great response times...

                                  Megalomaniak i miss those response times... really do.. few years back i bought lcd with va panel, and man its such a garbage.. i mena it didnt cost like garbage but in comparison to my older TN panel.. response time feels like 3x slower.. we are talking ms here but when you play FPS its really noticable.. also VA panels have that low light ghosting... i hate VA panels.. i dont care about color gamut, TN FTW. OFc i would like to try oled, but oleds gives me burn in anxiety..

                                      kuligs2 but oleds gives me burn in anxiety..

                                      New ones should be pretty good on that. Not that I've owned any, just based on reviews.

                                        kuligs2 i would like to try oled, but oleds gives me burn in anxiety..

                                        OLED burnout is already a thing of the past. I have an OLED TV and monitor. And there is no burn-in. Now there are technologies to prevent it.
                                        Offset (can be turned off) and pixel refresh. Refresh can be imperceptible (on TV) and aggressive (on monitors). The specific implementation depends on the manufacturer. But it's not very convenient when the update starts in the middle of work, although it doesn't happen often for me.

                                        There are recommendations, like putting video on the desktop and turning off the screen after 10 minutes of inactivity, but these are just wishes.

                                        I admit that the burn-in problem may come back when OLED goes mainstream and manufacturers start saving money on everything. But as long as it is a premium product — burn-in is not to be feared.

                                            Tomcat i have 2 monis, and as you know desktops have elements that are static.. still 90% of the time the screen stays the same.. i doubt that them technologies will be able to save screen from burn in.. there are plenty of videos with oled burn screens.. even steamdick is not safe from that..

                                            but sure.. i would want one .. when it gets cheaper.. .. i would get something like 24x2 inch wide.. i got 27 and 24 inch monis but i would like to replace both for 1 seamless..

                                            Btw i suggest ultrawide monitor for work .. not sure how gaming is on them.. but ive seen games that can stretch and use only 50% of the realestate.. and you get black borders on the sides..





                                                Yeah, I'm still sporting IPS screens myself because anything better would be too pricey. But there will be a time when the oleds and micro leds and what not will become the norm.

                                                kuligs2 there are plenty of videos with oled burn screens..

                                                I have a 27'' AOC AGON PRO AG276QZD OLED. I can't translate the text from the picture, but I didn't see any mention of it. By the way, it is very difficult to buy it in our country. I took, it seems, from the first importation and they, apparently, have not yet decided then with the price. It's gone up a lot since then.

                                                there are plenty of videos with oled burn screens..

                                                In the past, yeah, there were problems. Well, it is of course your business. I am very happy with the purchase. And if my games will be in demand and accordingly pay off, I have plans to move to a 42" monitor — TV does not fully meet the wishes for monitors.

                                                even steamdick is not safe from that..

                                                Why "even"?

                                                    Note sure if this is on topic:

                                                    I am actually using a CRT-like shader for simulating this scanline look in games, in my horror game project now currently. I'll be honest, it's a warmer style than I expected, especially when using bloom-style additive lighting in a world object.

                                                    In addition, the art and how it is created makes a difference. When you're using, say, GIMP for editing, you can go to pixel level, but I think most prefer to work with more pixels rather than less especially with hand-drawn art. So the higher resolutions by default smooth out a lot of the effect you talk about.

                                                    What I do, when I hand-draw my art, is I import through Inkscape and turn it into a clear black and 0-alpha PNG after vectorizing it (basically cheater's cleanup). I then import that PNG into a pixel art editor of choice (I use Pixelorama - it's also on Itch.io - and then I "harden" the pixels by selecting only the empty space, inverting it, then turning all those alpha-variants to a solid line. It does require a bit of cleanup and it's a stylistic choice to be sure, but people love how it looks.

                                                    DEMO of Horror Title

                                                    Tomcat why even? because steamdeck should be at the forefront of gamers needs, thus the screen is important.. and if it has such flaw as burn in then its imo is ewaste..

                                                        kuligs2 In case of SD OLED, since the design is purposefully cost cutting and since the OLED is a mid-gen update, I'm not surprised if it does have some issues. Still with some user care I recon it can last decently and valve is pretty involved in linux developments so better software support towards avoiding OLED burn in might well manifest from them. Remains to be seen tho.

                                                        Another side to consider is that valve and ifixit are pretty proactive in making sure that the device is repairable, so it's only the screen that would become e-waste and is replaceable.