Is using this AI Art Ethical?

Tomcat

xyz Or its catalyst because it facilitates financial compensation for the development. Depends how you choose to spin it.

Nope. How, what, and to whom do patent trolls “compensate”? And this is just one example.

Tomcat

xyz Or its catalyst because it facilitates financial compensation for the development.

The “compensated” funds often go not to development, but to paying an army of lawyers. The reason is that copyright law is a huge “gray area.” (This is the second answer to your question, although in terms of importance, it is rather the first.) But here we touch on a question that is worse than politics — an existential one.

Gowydot

Currently using ai is unethical since it gets its data without permission. So if creators give permission then it wouldn't be a big deal right? Gopro is doing that now, it gives users compensation to use their footage for ai companies.

kuligs2

Gowydot compensation as in chump change while corpos rake in bitcoins..

If you value your "DATA" then to publicize it online.. sheesh.. back in my day, people were debating out in the wild and throwing out ideas, which lead to revolutions and enlightenment.. imagine if some big ass chud said: achkually i said it first therefore you cant say that, you have to forget..

AI should be free to use btw.. corpos should host on their bitcoin miners the AI for people to use as much as we want for free.. many of them are.. if you train on public data, the public owns it.. there should be a law that if you own a AI facotry then you are obliged to let people use it. Because without people you would not exist. i dislike software that you have to pay for.. its anti human behavior.

MikeCL

kuligs2 AI should be free to use btw..

I'm not sure this is possible for an AI provider company at scale. The reality is, inference and training require a lot of energy, and paying those bills needs to be accounted for somehow. And if it's done at scale, you have infrastructure to deal with as well.

So the only way is to run Open Source models on your own hardware if you want to use it "for free".

xyz

kuligs2 AI should be free to use btw..

Why? On what actual legal grounds?

kuligs2 corpos should host on their bitcoin miners the AI for people to use as much as we want for free.. many of them are.. if you train on public data, the public owns it..

The problem though is - not all training data is public. Some of it is owned by someone and was used for training without their permission.

kuligs2

MikeCL look, these people (corporations) been stealing people data for decades, building up their infrastructure with data servers etc etc. Im sure with all the ads that we humans had to deal with all our lives, we payed for that many times over. Just because nvidia is greedy dont mean me as a consumer have to pay for it. NO!

Even if i have capabilities at home to run the AI, i choose to to deal with it online, just because it was trained on data thats out there online. And they better be paying for it (companies) not me 🙂

Gowydot

@kuligs2 We are already paying for it whether we know it or not. we are the product remember? 😉

Apart from making it a subscription service, big techs can capitalize ai just like google is doing with ads. They would let us use its ai for free, but integrate ad service into it, for example:

You: How to make my character double jump in Godot ?
ai : Here is the basic code. You can find more detailed or other solutions at godotforum.org.

You: I want a beer can image.
ai: Here is your beer can image. To remove the bud light logo you must subscribe for $20 a month.

And If there were a law preventing them from freely gathering our data then they would make us consent to handing our data over when using any of their services / websites / forums they own , like youtube, gmail, github , insta,..etc. or buy data from a third party like how Gopro is selling. This would clear big techs, and users, of unethical ai usage.

Not to sounds like I'm defending big techs but I mean the writing is on the wall.

Tomcat

Gowydot like youtube, gmail, github , insta,..etc. or buy data from a third party like how Gopro is selling.

You forgot to mention Steam.

xyz

Gowydot There's really no other way to monetize LLM output than product placement. And it looks really creepy.

kuligs2

xyz Why? On what actual legal grounds?

Using anything that is online and available without cracking pasworded pages.

xyz The problem though is - not all training data is public. Some of it is owned by someone and was used for training without their permission.

My stance always was and is that anything that is online and readable is public domain.. i dont steal stuff, i look for licences and use that are "as is" or "do whatever you want" and "no commission" types.. just to be safe..

xyz There's really no other way to monetize LLM output than product placement. And it looks really creepy.

I think thats why the corpos are building them GPU farms just to be the first in the market, and or to flood internet with AI bullshit data, and then implant their own agenda and stuff like that.. when people stop discerning AI from humans thats when the corpos win.. then they will sway public perception for political gains and for ofc, to sell products.. The future is not good the way i predict..

Tomcat

In fact, this discussion is, fortunately, meaningless. AI will continue to develop. Its main niche of application is military. Image recognition and analysis (which is what this thread is about) allows for the detection of camouflaged troops and logistics routes (supply routes), which gives a huge advantage. Ukrainians are already conducting offensive operations entirely with robots controlled by AI — without any soldiers on the front line. Soldiers do not even fire directly themselves — everything is done through robots. So, a civilized and progressive community can only welcome the development of AI as a way to save at least the lives of soldiers — its own people, who can be employed in productive fields (science, art).

Why Russia lags behind and will continue to lag behind in AI is a separate topic.

In particular, because the level of governance here is so low that all officials and the government can already be replaced by AI — it won't be any worse (so far, this only applies to Russia). Our officials' qualifications do not allow them to understand this, but their instincts (animal intuition) tell them so, and they oppose the development of AI. Opponents of AI can evacuate to Russia — they will be comfortable here (only in relation to AI, of course. After all, they will have to give up various conveniences and freedoms, but it's worth it, right?). In Russia, they say that AI cannot be developed here because the first sign of intelligence (of any kind) is the desire to get out of here. So opponents of AI will be comfortable here.

xyz

Tomcat Its main niche of application is military

And surveillance. Those two are the biggest concern.

Tomcat

xyz And surveillance. Those two are the biggest concern.

"Surveillance" is only part of the military sphere. Then it is not a problem, but a solution. Or do you mean surveillance of its own citizens (by secret police and corporations)? But this is indeed a big and separate problem. I will summarize it briefly as follows: If the government does not monitor its citizens, then a foreign government will monitor them. And influence them, of course. This is what we are currently seeing with the example of Russian propaganda around the world. So, this issue is extremely political and, again, the possible solution (well, the one I can offer) lies in the existential plane, which will be extremely difficult for the vast majority of the population to accept, even for discussion.

Um… well, that's exactly the kind of solution I'd like to show in the game. Among other things, to gauge people's reactions to it. Sorry for jumping on the topic of game development.

xyz

Tomcat I meant civil surveillance, the kind that state regimes are becoming increasingly excited to inflict upon their supposedly free citizens

Tomcat

xyz I meant civil surveillance, the kind that state regimes are becoming increasingly excited to inflict upon their supposedly free citizens

Now that's a political issue. As I said, surveillance is inevitable — Russians try to monitor everyone (not just their own citizens). Fortunately, they lack the resources and qualifications (specialists are fleeing the country). But to change this, social shifts are needed, including in citizens' attitudes toward politics. For starters, at least, it should be considered good manners to always discuss politics (as was customary in the democracies of Ancient Greece).

“Free citizens”… by the way, do you have weapons?

xolatgames

cybereality I would say it's not ethical, but eating meat is also not ethical and I had a cheeseburger for lunch yesterday.

But only don't for men.

xyz

kuligs2 Using anything that is online and available without cracking pasworded pages.

It doesn't work like that. Finding something on the internet doesn't make it free to do with it as you please. Even some CC licenses are restrictive enough to forbid training usage, let alone stuff with fully reserved rights like e.g. a movie trailer.

DaveTheCoder

xyz Finding something on the internet doesn't make it free to do with it as you please

So I can't sell Shut in the MS store?

Tomcat

xyz let alone stuff with fully reserved rights like e.g. a movie trailer.

I wonder if there are any American films with original ideas or if everything is borrowed? (This is usually called a remake.)

DaveTheCoder So I can't sell Shut in the MS store?

I don't know about the M$ store, but you can easily sell it on Boosty.to. (No one there cares about copyright unless the authors are major rights holders from Russia.)

xyz

DaveTheCoder So I can't sell Shut in the MS store?

You can play it though... if you're not afraid of all the malware I packed into the executable 😉 [obvious sarcasm]
You can also make a donation if you like it and want to see it develop further.

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