Godot 3D lack of polish

Gonoob

@Megalomaniak said:

@Gonoob said: I hope you can forgive me for that. :)

Whats there to forgive? I wasn't arguing with you, simply discussing. I was quoting(the second one) your post since it led a great segue into what I said but it was a statement of my own opinion and targeted towards the community at large.

As for the first part of the quotes I simply was saying just that. Its never too early to talk about something. Some decisions might need to be prioritized and taken before others though, true.

Oh, okey, I understand now. Thanks.

SeaFishelle

@Gonoob said: My understanding is that polish is when you have finished product and you only have some finishing touches to do. My understanding is that polish is what you call someone from Poland.

(sorry, I saw the opportunity and I jumped on it. :D)

newmodels

Unity3d has no path finding. I was using bullet physics inside irrlicht many years ago. It gave me a problem with my model getting stuck on the terrain, which was a 3d model.

Zireael

@newmodels said: Unity3d has no path finding. I was using bullet physics inside irrlicht many years ago. It gave me a problem with my model getting stuck on the terrain, which was a 3d model.

Unity 3d has navmeshes and can pathfind on them.

newmodels

@Zireael said:

@newmodels said: Unity3d has no path finding. I was using bullet physics inside irrlicht many years ago. It gave me a problem with my model getting stuck on the terrain, which was a 3d model.

Unity 3d has navmeshes and can pathfind on them.

Ah well, I never knew that one. Never heard of it with unity3d and never seen it in the menu. But I guess it doesn't matter, Unity3D is too dark for me, too dangerous.

GarromOrcShaman

@newmodels said:

@Zireael said:

@newmodels said: Unity3d has no path finding. I was using bullet physics inside irrlicht many years ago. It gave me a problem with my model getting stuck on the terrain, which was a 3d model.

Unity 3d has navmeshes and can pathfind on them.

Ah well, I never knew that one. Never heard of it with unity3d and never seen it in the menu. But I guess it doesn't matter, Unity3D is too dark for me, too dangerous.

Actually, Unity is way too bright causing permanent blindness. To make it dark you have to pay 150$ pre month... for something so stupid as color. GoDot is better anyway, it is just too young. Give GoDot some time to mature, to evolve, to grow.

MagicLord

@GarromOrcShaman said:

@newmodels said:

@Zireael said:

@newmodels said: Unity3d has no path finding. I was using bullet physics inside irrlicht many years ago. It gave me a problem with my model getting stuck on the terrain, which was a 3d model.

Unity 3d has navmeshes and can pathfind on them.

Ah well, I never knew that one. Never heard of it with unity3d and never seen it in the menu. But I guess it doesn't matter, Unity3D is too dark for me, too dangerous.

Actually, Unity is way too bright causing permanent blindness. To make it dark you have to pay 150$ pre month... for something so stupid as color. GoDot is better anyway, it is just too young. Give GoDot some time to mature, to evolve, to grow.

I checked and you pay nothing until you make $100k per year, there is the Plus at 35$ per month and Pro is 125$ not 150$ per month. It's not open source, it has a price , there is license agreement and there is some other things perhaps you won't like, but at least there is no foundation bugs or weak features preventing your from completing a game.

I agree Godot needs time to mature and evolve, does not jump on Godot 3D train when your game is something bigger than mobile games; for example Ghost of A Tale was possible for one man to create it with the features and plugins.

Ace_Dragon

@GarromOrcShaman said:

Actually, Unity is way too bright causing permanent blindness. To make it dark you have to pay 150$ pre month... for something so stupid as color. GoDot is better anyway, it is just too young. Give GoDot some time to mature, to evolve, to grow.

Not defending Unity or it's EULA here, but it's possible that your eyes are just especially sensitive to brightness (or you prefer to use your PC in a very dark room).

As for the EULA, that is one thing that might draw more Unity users to Godot eventually. My understanding of it is that with the free version, Unity sends a large amount of telemetry data and the company knows all about your projects and what is in them. In addition, games made with Unity free have mandatory data collection on people who play them (so if players start bashing your project on privacy concerns, there is nothing you can do). In addition, Unity tech. reserves the right to change the licensing structure and the EULA at any time (such as when the paid tiers were moved to being rental only).

Anyway, the march towards better usability drives on (well over 100 pull requests merged in the past week), use the nightly builds off of Calinou's site to get the latest (and most usable) version (they are actually pretty stable a lot of times, much like with Blender nightlies).

Gonoob

@Ace Dragon said:

@GarromOrcShaman said:

Actually, Unity is way too bright causing permanent blindness. To make it dark you have to pay 150$ pre month... for something so stupid as color. GoDot is better anyway, it is just too young. Give GoDot some time to mature, to evolve, to grow.

Not defending Unity or it's EULA here, but it's possible that your eyes are just especially sensitive to brightness (or you prefer to use your PC in a very dark room).

As for the EULA, that is one thing that might draw more Unity users to Godot eventually. My understanding of it is that with the free version, Unity sends a large amount of telemetry data and the company knows all about your projects and what is in them. In addition, games made with Unity free have mandatory data collection on people who play them (so if players start bashing your project on privacy concerns, there is nothing you can do). In addition, Unity tech. reserves the right to change the licensing structure and the EULA at any time (such as when the paid tiers were moved to being rental only).

Anyway, the march towards better usability drives on (well over 100 pull requests merged in the past week), use the nightly builds off of Calinou's site to get the latest (and most usable) version (they are actually pretty stable a lot of times, much like with Blender nightlies).

I totally agree with you. That's why even Unreal is much better than Unity.

The weird thing with Unreal and Cry engine is that they introduced some new concept of "access to source code". It's not "Open Source" and if you would read Cry engine license then you'd understand why they are so desperate to sue people for not using their engine. :D

MagicLord

@Ace Dragon said:

@GarromOrcShaman said:

Actually, Unity is way too bright causing permanent blindness. To make it dark you have to pay 150$ pre month... for something so stupid as color. GoDot is better anyway, it is just too young. Give GoDot some time to mature, to evolve, to grow.

Not defending Unity or it's EULA here, but it's possible that your eyes are just especially sensitive to brightness (or you prefer to use your PC in a very dark room).

As for the EULA, that is one thing that might draw more Unity users to Godot eventually. My understanding of it is that with the free version, Unity sends a large amount of telemetry data and the company knows all about your projects and what is in them. In addition, games made with Unity free have mandatory data collection on people who play them (so if players start bashing your project on privacy concerns, there is nothing you can do). In addition, Unity tech. reserves the right to change the licensing structure and the EULA at any time (such as when the paid tiers were moved to being rental only).

Anyway, the march towards better usability drives on (well over 100 pull requests merged in the past week), use the nightly builds off of Calinou's site to get the latest (and most usable) version (they are actually pretty stable a lot of times, much like with Blender nightlies).

You can use Unity offline, and why should you care if there is some data collected , you are not working on top secret thing but games and Unity must be aware who is using their software that is not a pirate version, and who published a game and what game. About licensing it changed, but it doesn't change each year and before Eula changes again you should had finished your game.

What would bother me the most would be the "Personal edition" splash screen that will not feet for a published game, because it suggests something very amateur :D

@Gonoob said:

@Ace Dragon said:

@GarromOrcShaman said:

Actually, Unity is way too bright causing permanent blindness. To make it dark you have to pay 150$ pre month... for something so stupid as color. GoDot is better anyway, it is just too young. Give GoDot some time to mature, to evolve, to grow.

Not defending Unity or it's EULA here, but it's possible that your eyes are just especially sensitive to brightness (or you prefer to use your PC in a very dark room).

As for the EULA, that is one thing that might draw more Unity users to Godot eventually. My understanding of it is that with the free version, Unity sends a large amount of telemetry data and the company knows all about your projects and what is in them. In addition, games made with Unity free have mandatory data collection on people who play them (so if players start bashing your project on privacy concerns, there is nothing you can do). In addition, Unity tech. reserves the right to change the licensing structure and the EULA at any time (such as when the paid tiers were moved to being rental only).

Anyway, the march towards better usability drives on (well over 100 pull requests merged in the past week), use the nightly builds off of Calinou's site to get the latest (and most usable) version (they are actually pretty stable a lot of times, much like with Blender nightlies).

I totally agree with you. That's why even Unreal is much better than Unity.

The weird thing with Unreal and Cry engine is that they introduced some new concept of "access to source code". It's not "Open Source" and if you would read Cry engine license then you'd understand why they are so desperate to sue people for not using their engine. :D

There is no better or much better, but what people need to achieve their goals without needing them to be engine programmers.

Unity is the easiest to use and to program, it's foundations are good, there is top menus with all tools list, and all tools windows are dockable where you want. The documentation is complete with examples for any features. This is why Unity is so popular among indies and why there is so much Unity games. I even found Unity Transform lot more easier to understand than Godot Transform and Global_transform that are misleading, another example is align to Vector in Unity it's one argument and in Godot there is two, i could continue on and on but Unity is about simplicity. I don' t understand some people hate Unity when it could allow them to finish their game with more features and better tools, and get them successful or make money.

Well, Godot like Unity in the past will need time to maturate and get good tools and foundations.

Gonoob

@MagicLord said:

There is no better or much better, but what people need to achieve their goals without needing them to be engine programmers.

Unity is the easiest to use and to program, it's foundations are good, there is top menus with all tools list, and all tools windows are dockable where you want. The documentation is complete with examples for any features. This is why Unity is so popular among indies and why there is so much Unity games. I even found Unity Transform lot more easier to understand than Godot Transform and Global_transform that are misleading, another example is align to Vector in Unity it's one argument and in Godot there is two, i could continue on and on but Unity is about simplicity. I don' t understand some people hate Unity when it could allow them to finish their game with more features and better tools, and get them successful or make money.

Well, Godot like Unity in the past will need time to maturate and get good tools and foundations.

Did I ever say that Unity is a bad engine? I can say why some other engine is better than Unity or what I don't like about Unity, both of which are subjective and my opinion. I don't expect people to agree with me. I agree that it's extremely easy to use Unity - I already mentioned exactly that in my other post. I have also used Unity in the past. I was able to learn to use it in one week and through together prototype in another. It still doesn't mean that I have to like it or that there aren't better engines available. What I don't understand is why someone would go out of their way to promote some engine other than Godot here?

What you might have found "misleading" about Godot might as well been because you got used to another way of doing things. It doesn't mean that the way things are done in Godot are better or worse - simply different. It's only your opinion that it might be worse. Just it's only my opinion if I don't like the way some software I might use is going to spy on me. Again, it doesn't bother you but there are plenty of people who are concerned about their privacy.

All I said was that in my opinion, Unreal engine is better than Unity (I don't hate Unity!). That's it. And on top of that I can list the reasons why I think so. But I don't promote Unreal, I still prefer Godot to Unreal or I wouldn't be here. ;)

emo10001

@Gonoob said: I still prefer Godot to Unreal or I wouldn't be here. ;)

Exactly! That's really the point right? We're all here because we see something in Godot that we like/prefer :smile:

This conversation is way longer that I would have expected LOL. Honestly, Godot is young but looking good with a lot of potential. It's active, it's being strongly developed. And it's being "gifted" to us for FREE. Again, I have no doubt that bugs will get worked out and that eventually the "core" features will be tightened up.

The comparisons to Unity, Unreal, Cryengine, Torque...etc...they're pointless. Those engines are older, more mature and way further along. I mean...at least compare Godot to engines that are about the same "age".

Either way. Everyone should go to the Projects thread and show us all what you're doing!

-emo

Ace_Dragon

@Gonoob said: What I don't understand is why someone would go out of their way to promote some engine other than Godot here?

To be fair, there's no prohibition regarding the mention of other engines and what they can do here.

Unity can do a lot, I can acknowledge that. The trick is though that the vast majority of professional Unity developers get their games done after they spend loads of money on plugins to get the tools they need (because Unity vanilla lacks those tools, has a version of the tool that is inadequate, or the plugin helps them work around bugs).

I have read that if you're not pushing Unity very hard (which is the case for the majority of users), then it does fine. Even then, I read a lot about many users being stuck on certain versions for extended periods of time because the way it is developed brings lots of new features in short order, but also a lot of bugs and regressions. Then like Unreal, they have no qualms about breaking backwards compatibility with every release (compared to Blender and Godot which has a development paradigm of trying not to break projects for extended periods).

Like MagicLord says, we should acknowledge that even with Godot not being known for showstopping bugs in basic systems like the big engines, there are still many areas where improvements can be done and many things (especially in graphics) that can be fixed. Fortunately, we have a true community-driven system of development where people are fixing bugs and other issues they are running into when making their games (something with Unity doesn't have). Unreal does have game-driven development, but it's not based on a full spectrum of games being made as opposed to what Epic is working on (technically they do get a lot of pull requests, but Epic has yet to have a system in place to really give them attention).

Megalomaniak

@Gonoob said: What I don't understand is why someone would go out of their way to promote some engine other than Godot here?

I don't think his purpose here is to promote other engines at all, rather he is comparing the usability of different engines to dissect ways in which godot could be improved. I consider that fine, so long as this doesn't become a X vs Y shouting match but rather is handled through the means of civil discourse. :)

@MagicLord I do think you might want to improve your skills in rhetoric to perhaps better deliver your message. I mean some of us seem to understand you better than others.

MagicLord

@Gonoob said:

@MagicLord said:

There is no better or much better, but what people need to achieve their goals without needing them to be engine programmers.

Unity is the easiest to use and to program, it's foundations are good, there is top menus with all tools list, and all tools windows are dockable where you want. The documentation is complete with examples for any features. This is why Unity is so popular among indies and why there is so much Unity games. I even found Unity Transform lot more easier to understand than Godot Transform and Global_transform that are misleading, another example is align to Vector in Unity it's one argument and in Godot there is two, i could continue on and on but Unity is about simplicity. I don' t understand some people hate Unity when it could allow them to finish their game with more features and better tools, and get them successful or make money.

Well, Godot like Unity in the past will need time to maturate and get good tools and foundations.

Did I ever say that Unity is a bad engine? I can say why some other engine is better than Unity or what I don't like about Unity, both of which are subjective and my opinion. I don't expect people to agree with me. I agree that it's extremely easy to use Unity - I already mentioned exactly that in my other post. I have also used Unity in the past. I was able to learn to use it in one week and through together prototype in another. It still doesn't mean that I have to like it or that there aren't better engines available. What I don't understand is why someone would go out of their way to promote some engine other than Godot here?

What you might have found "misleading" about Godot might as well been because you got used to another way of doing things. It doesn't mean that the way things are done in Godot are better or worse - simply different. It's only your opinion that it might be worse. Just it's only my opinion if I don't like the way some software I might use is going to spy on me. Again, it doesn't bother you but there are plenty of people who are concerned about their privacy.

All I said was that in my opinion, Unreal engine is better than Unity (I don't hate Unity!). That's it. And on top of that I can list the reasons why I think so. But I don't promote Unreal, I still prefer Godot to Unreal or I wouldn't be here. ;)

I took Unity because it is more easy to program and use than UE4. It is a very good reference if you wish to compare with another engine about high usability, simplicity and documentation. BTW the other engine i use a side with Godot is not Unity and UE4 also spies you ;)

@Megalomaniak said:

@Gonoob said: What I don't understand is why someone would go out of their way to promote some engine other than Godot here?

I don't think his purpose here is to promote other engines at all, rather he is comparing the usability of different engines to dissect ways in which godot could be improved. I consider that fine, so long as this doesn't become a X vs Y shouting match but rather is handled through the means of civil discourse. :)

@MagicLord I do think you might want to improve your skills in rhetoric to perhaps better deliver your message. I mean some of us seem to understand you better than others.

I'm not a promoter, i used Unity and i know it well, so i can compare with it, for example the navigation for me is not finished and lacks a navagent component, there is some physics issues , vehicle physics not finished and stable that should be fixed later. On the other side Godot provides a full list of spatial material features, GiProbe cone tracing , the components nodes system and some other cool features.

NeoBerlin

Hi, Godot is fantastic! But Godot is not finished yet. Godot should have its priority in getting existing features bug-free instead of dealing with new features: Collisions in 3D are miserable, even simple collision boxes are not detected cleanly at a certain speed. I noticed that when I programmed a pinball machine. Carphysics are also not optimal: the attitudes are very sensitive and often overreact, and collision with the world plays an important role here as well. collisions run, if at all, only via minimally poligone collisionboxes. As a beginner (not anymore) I always thought that I had done something wrong and had to find out through many experiments that Godot just does not run smoothly here - that took a lot of time and was very frustrating. .. Android: landscapemode has a twisted input surface to the grafic surface, so it's useless at the moment. 3D is far from running on the GLE versions as stated - my devices meet the requirements, but on both it does not work or only in a very contorted view. Godot is still great! I learned a lot with Godot, Godot helped me to increase my abilities tremendously ... ... and once the bugs out of the existing features are out, Godot will be unbeatable! And then there's time for new features.

... but polish is still out of the question for a long time, in my opinion. Neo

Megalomaniak

@NeoBerlin Don't forget to report bugs you have found to the issue tracker! Include detailed descriptions and when ever possible a simple but clear test scene so the developers can test and debug the bug you have reported. :)

NeoBerlin

hmm...the list of bugs is very very long and not a least the people reporting a bug in multible posts. and i dont want to post an already known bug...because i think the developer are spending a lot too lot of time to merge double posted bugs... its hard to find out what bug is already known...the list is long... i have a lot of samples there are showing the bugs in a clean way... ...my last problem is my bad english xD Thank you Neo

Ace_Dragon

Not every issue on the issue tracker is a bug (so there's not over 3000 known bugs in Godot). Here is the current list of reported bugs. https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Abug

Keep in mind though, the list includes bugs in master only (ie. not in 3.0.2), and "bugs" that might actually be due to user error or a lack of understanding on how a feature works.

NeoBerlin

yes, the people who use the issuetracker to support their own disability make it harder for the devs to find real bugs ... i hate wasting my time reading through posts where you can go into the first words states that these people should have been googling before ... it could be a bug - no ... it's their stupidity!

sorry, i've really spent a lot of time reading all this stuff and so damn often i think to myself: hey guys, best of all you want to have your thoughts read and put them in a game with just a single button .. . the button ... everything can xD lol, sorry Neo hey, the issue tracker is damn important ... but too often he's being used to being supported ok, i love being supported for my own disability ... but not in an issue tracker. once more time to say: I love this forum here!

Now I need 200 bpm on my ears xD Nice evening Neo

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