How to make a "living world" that advances without the player

xyz

Tomcat Typical “professor syndrome.”

No, it's "get things done syndrome".

Tomcat xyz
upload the prototype on itch.io

Keep in mind that after this step, you may be dragged through the mud, just like me.

Well that's the whole point. Better to get dragged through mud as soon as possible, rather than after you've sunk years of effort into the thing. Not to mention the finances.

Tomcat

xyz No, it's "get things done syndrome".

The mistake here is not in the target and algorithm, but in the starting position.

Well that's the whole point. Better to get dragged through mud as soon as possible, rather than after you've sunk years of effort into the thing. Not to mention the finances.

That's the point, but it's true. You just have to take into account the high probability of such an outcome.

Tomcat

Danimal

xyz If you actually want to produce something rather than just daydream, here's your course of action for the next 4 weeks:

xyz No, it's "get things done syndrome".

xyz The prototype doesn't need to be publicly available, however it needs to be made. Otherwise, nothing happens.

I would suggest starting with something much simpler if you want to work alone. And prepare yourself for years of thankless and unappreciated work.

Danimal

trizZzle What was is intention for creating this post? Posts before page 25 won't load, I can't read the entry post.
With my current knowledge it sounds like: I did something nobody asked for or wanted and they don't thank me for it.

I totally don´t understand your answer

xyz Not to mention the finances.

Got a job, no money needed from games; would thank it tho. But yes, start doing something and prototype early and often, heard that mantra plenty of times. But well, it´s nice to hear what people think of your idea before you spend time on it.

xyz

Tomcat The prototype doesn't need to be publicly available, however it needs to be made. Otherwise, nothing happens.

trizZzle

Tomcat And prepare yourself for years of thankless and unappreciated work.

What was is intention for creating this post? Posts before page 25 won't load, I can't read the entry post.
With my current knowledge it sounds like: I did something nobody asked for or wanted and they don't thank me for it. 🤔
Kinda lika:

Tomcat

trizZzle What was is intention for creating this post? Posts before page 25 won't load, I can't read the entry post.

It seems to be a problem with this forum. Posts load over time. I already have the 10th one available.

Danimal I totally don´t understand your answer

He probably meant that the first posts are not available in the thread via my link.

I guess this problem should be reported to @MikeCL.

Danimal But yes, start doing something and prototype early and often, heard that mantra plenty of times.

Well, that's quite reasonable advice. Especially since you have options and can choose.

trizZzle

Danimal Sorry, I messed up the quote in my answer. It was offtopic and not meant for you. I will edit it. I was refering to Tomcats post.

xyz

Danimal Got a job, no money needed from games; would thank it tho.

Not from it. With the scope you described, you'll need money for it, because something like that cannot be produced by a single person in their free time while doing nine to five.

Danimal But yes, start doing something and prototype early and often, heard that mantra plenty of times. But well, it´s nice to hear what people think of your idea before you spend time on it.

It's not a "mantra". It's how things get done.

Your descriptions don't really constitute a well thought out idea. It's not even a coherent concept. It's just a casual patchwork of more or less generic stuff picked up from all over the place. And it's written from the perspective of a gamer instead of a game designer. Not much can be gained by presenting something like this publicly. It'll just generate useless chatter. Present something focused or a small functional prototype. That could be a good starting point for collecting meaningful feedback.

If you plan to solo dev games, one of the most important skills to have is project management. The only way to build this skill is by finishing projects. That's why you want to start with small projects. With insufficient experience, a project is an uncharted territory. Chances to get lost in a large uncharted territory are almost 100%. So pick a small one for start. Make something that's in scope comparable to a tetris clone. Do it start to finish. It can be a small specific part of your grand idea or your whole idea compressed and reduced to its bare essence, fleshed out into something playable and hopefully - fun. But most importantly something that has a good chance of being put together.

Tomcat

Danimal Got a job, no money needed from games

Is your computer powerful enough to develop a game of this scale? And do you have a monitor that can display the entire world and the interactions between the actors?

MikeCL My suggestion is to start writing down a game design document (GDD) as a first step.

The advice is standard and good, but… Another World was made without a design document.

MikeCL

Tomcat He probably meant that the first posts are not available in the thread via my link.

Hmm.. that's strange. Can't see the earlier posts as mentioned. Any idea when those earlier posts were posted? I wonder if they were posted in a time before the migration to this platform. Wonder if there might have been any data missing/corruption, if it's really old. I can't load the posts neither the user that posted. So not sure what's going on. I'll do some investigation.

Tomcat

MikeCL I can't load the posts neither the user that posted.

This is my ancient thread, Old study works. The oldest post that is displayed is 9 (it was just 10 a moment ago). Apparently, posts are loaded from the end of the thread over time. I believe the problem lies in the “ ribbon” design of the site, and I’m not sure it can be fixed.

MikeCL I wonder if they were posted in a time before the migration to this platform.

The oldest post that is displayed is 9 [Dec 9, 2022]

trizZzle

MikeCL I'm pretty sure I once read the posts in that thread 1+ year ago and I never had this issue before. I will try again sometime.

MikeCL

Danimal Interesting idea. Not sure how it would work in a game. But could potentially get gamers hooked. I just imagine that you could "follow" the happening taking place in the world through a website or notifications. Could be cool.

As for the technical side. There's probably many different ways. But on top of mind, I would probably look into a backend server that's always on, that has a cron job that runs every now and then. The cron job could maybe run through a set of scheduled tasks in order to progress the world. And maybe figure out an algorithm that could randomize some aspects and what kind of event that would happen in the world.

Then also have a database for persistent data that you update.

The cllent (the game that runs on your computer) would then fetch the world state when you enter the game.

Probably how I would approach something like this. But this is just an idea without me having done any research on the subject 🙂

Danimal

MikeCL That is geared for a single player game or multiplayer?

xyz Will do, promise.

MikeCL

Danimal That is geared for a single player game or multiplayer?

Both, as the client would be making API calls to a server basically. But this is only from a conceptual level. You would need to dive deeper into an architecture that delivers on this. And before you can design an architecture for it, you will need to know about your game more in detail.

If you only have this as a singleplayer game and you want everything to stay on the client side (game installed on your computer), there could be ways around this, the challenge here is, how do you keep progressing the game when your computer shuts off? One way is to track time spent between when the game is off, then do a progression iterations based on that. Like if your game was switched off for 12 hours and you want to update the world 1 time every hour, then when you start the game again, it updates the world 12 times with the set of rules and algorithms before you as a player enters the world. If you are off the game for a month, you'll have a lot of iterations though 😛

My suggestion is to start writing down a game design document (GDD) as a first step.

First list down the broad idea, then you dive deeper into details. This will make things very clear to yourself, and also enabling you to communicate your game to other people as you have mapped out an idea/concept into something you can take action on.

Once you know this, you can start sketching how your system should/need to work. Then start prototyping small parts/systems of it.

May I ask what experience you have with games and backend dev?

kuligs2

xyz sounds like a plan. Wish it was that easy for everyone.

xyz

kuligs2 It is easy if you're willing to simplify. The catch is in being able to let go and simplify your ideas enough to make them producible with time/money/knowledge that's currently at your disposal.

Toxe

Danimal 90´s psx jap games aesthetics

Please don't say "jap".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jap

kuligs2

xyz but then question is how detailed it has to be in order to convey the story/theme/mechanic youre aiming. And if the simplified version get too complex for your abilities to create it, then you get into the - "i need to learn to do this, that and other things not because its easy but because i need them in order to ""block out the idea"""

And so, you either stuck in a loop of compromises that not exactly conveys what youre trying to achieve or you stuck in that "always need to learn to do that next thing".. and time getting wasted.. and you get discouraged to continue cuz results dont show up that often.

Danimal

xyz It is easy if you're willing to simplify. The catch is in being able to let go and simplify your ideas enough to make them producible with time/money/knowledge that's currently at your disposal.

Yeah, most sensible option, I can´t nor want to hire someone to make me a game. I want to do it myself, I don´t care if it takes years.
But first I need to learn how to deliver on all of this.

Actually, the world only needs to run while the players is in, interesting idea that of "running" offline. But first I need to get it working in the most basic form.
I´m not a native speaker, so I didn´t know "jap" was despective nor offensive, in my country we say "japos" as a very harmless abbreviation.

My pc is a bit old, got a decent 28" screen, i5 9600K and g-force GTX 1660 TI; don´t tell me I need a NASA pc for this?. Remember I plan to use low poly pixel art like these models I made and can be a sample of what I aim for:

(All available on Open Game Art)

As for sharing?, I´ll be delighted if someone wants to play my probably horrible "game" builds; fat chance it becomes a commercial success but I can dream. I don´t think having testers providing feedback is a bad thing, the opposite, if it is very bad, someone being honest can save you lots of wasted time and effort.

xyz

kuligs2 Simplify, and then simplify more. And then some more. To the point where the thing looks trivial to you. Then implement. Get satisfaction from actually finishing something. You can always build something bigger on top of that, yet you'll already have something to show for.

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