Solium - personal research and development

xyz

kuligs2 Put invisible walls on edges.

kuligs2

xyz too much work and complicates things..

xyz

kuligs2 I thought you liked too much work and complicating things.

If you can put regular walls into a level, why would it be too much work to add invisible ones? And I don't see anything complicated about it. It's super straightforward.

You can also raycast. I've answered a similar question recently over at official forums:
https://forum.godotengine.org/t/best-way-to-prevent-player-from-walking-off-ledge/126728/35

If a single central raycast still pushes the visual representation too far over the ledge, use a circular array of raycasts in the same way.

kuligs2

xyz maybe it didnt translate well but what i meant is that you create level/world and then you need to go over every ledge or something that player could jump off, meaning you do the level twice.. and if you make changes to level then its another potential place for bugs to start multiplying..

Raycasting, need to see if this is what i want so that it feels good when playing..

xyz

kuligs2 You can automate creation of such colliders. It'd be worth the effort if you want player so slide along the ledges. If they just fall down or stop, then raycasting will be more than enough.

Raycasts will feel good if you implement them to feel good.

kuligs2

xyz Colliders are easy to create with physical bones thing or something but, getting the character3d node to recognize all of them is another thing.

Because all of them colliders are part of bones, and this make them move with character animations but the character3d node expect the collider (single?) to be child of the node.

Havent explored this in more detail, gotta redo them darn animations with simpler rig.

EDIT:
Here its shown how its done, but its for hitboxes, but in generat you get all the collisions attached to the bones, now the question is how to make it work with char3d node.

Hmm.. maybe instead of char3d node, use a plain node3d or something?

xyz

kuligs2 Colliders are easy to create with physical bones thing or something but, getting the character3d node to recognize all of them is another thing.

Don't do that. Just make things work with a single capsule. Keep it simple.

kuligs2

Ok so the New rig with minimal bones looks like this

Articulating fingers will be a pain tho.. the weights are a mess..

kuligs2

kuligs2 Well the more i pose the guy, the more i realize im missing bones/parenting to the wrong bones etc.. and now its starts to look like the default blender human armature 😃..

Maybe i should use that instead? .... sheesh..

Tomcat

kuligs2 Ok so the New rig with minimal bones looks like this
…
Articulating fingers will be a pain tho.. the weights are a mess..

In the minimum rig, finger bones are not needed.

rig with minimal bones

Especially for you, I have censored the private parts, even though I am fundamentally opposed to censorship.

MikeCL

A tip if you want to save time, use the Blender Meta Rig and combine it with Rigify and Game Rig Tools

Rigify = creates all the animation controls for you with a robust IK system (and you can pick if you want to controls based on IK or FK). You might need to manually activate the addon if it's not already (comes with blender so you only need to activate it)

Game Rig Tools = Converts that controller rig back to a skeleton that's game friendly and you can bake down the action animations to NLA tracks.

Very powerful combo. and it's free. Saves a ton of time. Use that and just delete the face bones if you don't need them.

MikeCL

kuligs2 You are not supposed to export the control rig to the game engine. Those are only for animating in blender, you then bake the animation down to a "deformation" rig that is "game engine friendly" without the controllers. (or maybe I'm misreading what you mean here?)

MikeCL Game Rig Tools

Is great for this ☝️

Also when you have the animations baked down to NLA tracks, also set the following setting:
Animations Mode = NLA

kuligs2

Tomcat well since my model have fingers, bones are needed, otherwise how are you gonna make them hold a weapon, or fist when running? Only T-1000 runs without fisting fists.

Tomcat

kuligs2 well since my model have fingers, bones are needed, otherwise how are you gonna make them hold a weapon, or fist when running?

In the minimal rig, one finger is more than enough (with plenty to spare) to understand the situation and work through the process. When transitioning to a full-fledged model in your main work, you can add the missing ones. But I already understand that you like to waste time on unnecessary things.

xyz

kuligs2 Go with "one finger" and a thumb as @Tomcat suggested. It's enough to depict grabs/fists in this type of third person view.

MikeCL

kuligs2 You could use 3 finger bones..

thumb,
index finder
the rest.

This way you get a reduced amount of bones, and you still have the index finger if you need the character to be able to point etc. But this also depends on the requirements you have for the character.

If the only thing the character will be doing with the hands are, having fingers open as default, and then be able to make a fist. Then I would recommend what @Tomcat showed. The tweak I would do is to align the finger bones to the index finger, so the bones are more aligned in a straighter line. They would deform better when making a fist, also align the geometry so the fingers aren't as spread out, or you would have a hard time closing the fingers to a fist with only one finger rigged.

kuligs2

Tomcat im not wasting time, im learning. Failure is how you learn. If we never failed we would not learn a thing.

I dont know how to rig 1 bone to all fingers so that they can close to a fist, but ill see what i can do..

Ive been thinking of reusing the human armature from blender but not generate meta rig. That meta rig introduced like 100 more bones that are hard to filter. The deform armature was what i would say "minimal" rig.

I will remind yall, that this is not a game im working on, just a research type project to see how to set up things for something with more substance.

MikeCL

kuligs2

kuligs2 im not wasting time, im learning. Failure is how you learn. If we never failed we would not learn a thing.

I can respect this. 💪 Makes sense that you want to do everything.

kuligs2 I dont know how to rig 1 bone to all fingers so that they can close to a fist, but ill see what i can do..

It would be the same way as rigging all fingers. But instead of each finger having its own bones, there's only 1 set of bones for 1 finger that all fingers are skinned to. In order for this to work, the mesh for the fingers should align close to each other and not spread like the images previously shown (Only thing I might add would be the thumb bones.). Something like this:

Note: don't know the owner of the image. From a google search result. But it illustrates what it would look like if only rigging to 1 finger.

Tomcat

kuligs2 im not wasting time, im learning. Failure is how you learn. If we never failed we would not learn a thing.

Learning from the general to the specific. First the basics, then the details. That's academic education. You're fixated on the details. That way, you'll never get to the main point (in this case, creating the game itself). 🧑‍🎓

You had a good game at a fairly advanced stage — what happened to it? I want to play it! 🕹️

xyz

kuligs2 im not wasting time, im learning.

Then do the complete rig on your own. Make a skeleton and paint the weights yourself.

kuligs2

MikeCL hmm, ok gotta try the manual way of weight painting for each bone, i just use automatic and it usually does good if enough bones..

I guess i need to assign for each one finger bone section all the finger finger bone sections 😃 i know its hard to follow but something like this?

MikeCL

kuligs2 Yes, you would need to manually do some weight painting. Maybe having the automatic weights could be a good starting point so you don't need to skin everything from scratch. Just do some weight painting where it's needed.

kuligs2 I guess i need to assign for each one finger bone section all the finger finger bone sections 😃 i know its hard to follow but something like this?

Yes, I'm not 100% sure what you mean. but if you mean that each part of the finger needed to be skinned to each finger bone, then yes.. Another note, you could also "cheat" a little by making the fingers closer to each other in length. Since the length of the fingers might also result in a bit of a strange result, the pivot of a single bone rotation might not align perfectly with all of the fingers.

Do you mean that the yellow marking should be skinned to the red circle? If so, no. I'm guessing that's just the tip bone. So the yellow markings should be skinned directly to the underlying bone. So in your marking, that would be the yellow parts of the geometry skinned to the bone right before the red circle.

But the best way for you to experience what works is just to try it as a first step. See what results you get.

xyz

kuligs2 I guess i need to assign for each one finger bone section all the finger finger bone sections 😃 i know its hard to follow but something like this?

Test-animate the bound skeleton and scrub the animation around when painting weights. That way you'll see how exactly the thing is getting deformed which will inform you how it needs to be painted.

Tomcat

kuligs2 I guess i need to assign for each one finger bone section all the finger finger bone sections 😃 i know its hard to follow but something like this?

Use MakeHuman.

kuligs2

Tomcat im no academics enjoyer, i do things my way.

What game? Never had anything resembling a game posted on here.

xyz thats what i was doing and i realized that it resembles the default blender human skelly - without the IK FK helper bones.

xyz This i was doing and then i ended up with as many bones as the default blender skelly.

Tomcat You keep trying to sell me your make human app for years. 😃... not yet, need to suffer a bit more on my own.

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