Beginner tutorial without battle?

Tomcat

trizZzle Now I'm curious if my country is a wild country too. Sorry for the offtopic.

All countries have gone feral, to one degree or another. We live at the end of civilization.There is no country that would be a model now. But this is a political topic, unfortunately.

xyz

Tomcat It is good, along with learning the programming itself, to have an idea of how to apply it in your work.

Definitely. But game programming is somewhat peculiar in this regard. I think it's better to learn and apply programming basics with something a bit more "boring". Because people get way over-excited about making games, often forgetting it's still just plain old software development, best done by nerds with computer science degrees. Beginners are all too pumped up to produce something flashy asap and just go after quick fixes promised by how to tutorials. The actual fundamental knowledge, essential for solving problems on your own, is completely tossed away when "learning" like this. In the long run this leads to disappointment. Making a whole game without solid problem solving skills is a very arduous task. This finally results in - quitting. As with every discipline, you need to truly love the "boring" fundamentals in order to become competent enough to produce "exciting" stuff.

Tomcat

xyz I think it's better to learn and apply programming basics with something a bit more "boring".

I will cite an unquestioned authority and respond with a quote from him:

Conversely, I think this book is applicable to non-game software too. I could just as well have called this book More Design Patterns, but I think games make for more engaging examples. Do you really want to read yet another book about employee records and bank accounts?

xyz Making a whole game without solid problem solving skills is a very arduous task.

I would call that "Impossible."

xyz

Tomcat It's just a marketing device to sell more books by putting it in the "cool" gamedev context 🙂. Design patterns are abstractions. People who are interested in learning about them are definitely not beginners and they probably couldn't care less how "engaging" the examples are.

Btw this is not a very good book on design patterns. It just took a few of classic patterns from Gamma/Helm/Johnson/Vlissides and described them in a sort of messy way. If you're really interested in DP, better go straight to the source, although this type of strict oo thinking is lately fallen out of vogue somewhat.

Tomcat

xyz It's just a marketing device to sell more books by putting it in the "cool" gamedev context

A marketing device not at the very beginning of the introduction? I guess they'll only stumble upon it when they start reading the book.

It just took a few of classic patterns from Gamma/Helm/Johnson/Vlissides and described them in a sort of messy way.

The book may be confusing against the original, but it is well translated into a language that is native to me. And I couldn't find a translation of the original. Although, my case is not indicative and, unfortunately, English should be learned... even before learning programming.

But the fact that creating games allows you to keep your interest in learning programming when you can see the result at once is very inspiring. And protects from burnout at the initial stage.

Cchristina

A brief rant:
when tutorials say "from scratch" or "step-by-step" etc, they shouldn't introduce ready-made scenes, because we can't watch the progress and we can't see the logic. If you say from scratch but then expect me to either find an asset online or create it in another application, then it is not from scratch. "Import the whole thing from a zip and then follow along" is not from scratch.
Tutorial makers should say "this is about coding the movement of a character" not "creating a character from scratch".
If I want a tutorial with ready-made assets, I pick a tutorial with ready-made assets.
If I want to see exactly how it should be created, tell me that and let me drown or swim.

Also, wow, the changes from 3 to 4.2 are enormous! They seem to have reducted a lot of things.

Tomcat when you can see the result at once

I agree with that in every context of learning: learn by practicing little chunks of what you know, but only undertake a big project when you are ready. If you just learn and learn and learn, it will be empty knowledge.

xyz just a marketing device

That's an acceptable practice, unless the whole thing is just a pitch for something else. I haven't read the book, but I have seen a lot of books that are just pure marketing for a class or a webinar or another service and it is very frustrating.
If there is value in the product, marketing is ok and I'd say necessary. If the product itself is the marketing, then...hm.

xyz

Tomcat A marketing device not at the very beginning of the introduction?

It's on the website, lol.

I guess having this book on design patterns is better than having no book, if this topic piques your interest.

DaveTheCoder

trizZzle What are wild countries?

Abandonment of traditional values.

Tomcat

DaveTheCoder Abandonment of traditional values.

It's more the other way around. A search for greatness in the past, nostalgia and hopeless attempts to bring back the old days. A return to tradition. And, by inertia, further into the archaic.

xyz

Cchristina Also, wow, the changes from 3 to 4.2 are enormous! They seem to have reducted a lot of things.

They're not that drastic but if you're a beginner following a tutorial, it's best to stick to the exact version the tutorial is using. Otherwise the changes you're not aware of can cause you a lot of headache, to the point that you'll likely quite the tutorial.

Jesusemora

Cchristina when tutorials say "from scratch" or "step-by-step" etc, they shouldn't introduce ready-made scenes, because we can't watch the progress and we can't see the logic. If you say from scratch but then expect me to either find an asset online or create it in another application, then it is not from scratch. "Import the whole thing from a zip and then follow along" is not from scratch.

Depends. But tutorials have levels, they are targeted to people at different stages. If I see a tutorial on animations in blender but it goes through the process of modeling the character and rigging it I tend to get annoyed because that's not what I'm looking for, I already know how to do that.
Other tutorials have episodes, where they do all this process in the first "episodes" so they can get it out of the way and get to the more advanced stuff.
Another very important thing you need to do is study those files and the code, you will learn much this way. A lot of begginers just type the same header without knowing what it does because it's required, but knowing what everything does will allow you to write your own code and do different things. Always keep the docs around to look out functions and variables and what they are supposed to do.

Cchristina the changes from 3 to 4.2 are enormous! They seem to have reducted a lot of things.

4.2 has SEVERAL improvements over 3, the issue is it's still in development. Godot 3 is the stable version that you use if you need something done soon, 4.2 is for long term projects. It is faster, has more features for 3D and data stuff and editor usability, but it tends to throw errors and crash more often, which should be fixed over the next couple releases.

DaveTheCoder

xyz They're not that drastic

The changes are extensive, especially for a beginner who doesn't know how to distinguish his own mistake from a feature change.

Cchristina

Jesusemora A lot of begginers just type the same header without knowing what it does because it's required

Exactly! I want to see how it goes step by step, to try it out and see what it does on my own screen. So I pick "beginner/noob/absolute beginner" tutorials on how to add the character and it says add this because of this reason and add that because of that reason, everything goes smoothly and, out of the blue, I find myself in the middle of an animation code without steps 4 to 36, just with a bunch of imported assets!

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