I know this may get a bit ugly, let's try to be civil. 🙂 This is a casual chat on devices, not a "Why you should have this device" sort of thing.

I was wondering, what are the pros and cons of the different types of PCs?

Windows, I'd say, is known for ease of use, and Mac is known for graphics- but that's about it. In the opinions of others, what are these devices each good at/ very bad at?

I guess the only other known thing is that Mac is used to build games for the App Store, and Windows builds for games on Android. You could probably use a VM to make games for either one, but in general, this is the setup.

I think it's mostly a brand or lifestyle choice. Each platform has strengths, but ultimately it's a personal choice.

I know, I'm more curious because I've only ever had one brand. I'm thinking of looking at others. 🙂

best way to know is to try them. This being largely a subjective thing, I don't think anyone else can really determine what would work best for you.

It's very simple. Linux is good, Windows and Mac are bad.

I heard you can do quite a bit with them, but I dunno what all it does.

I use Ubuntu, I like it a lot. But I also have Windows 11 and macOS on other PCs, so I can do testing. Linux does most stuff well, but there are sometimes problems. A lot of games work, but a few do not, and sometimes there are things that aren't supported for legal reasons (like playing Blu-Ray discs or certain DRM on streaming websites). Overall it's still nice. You can do lots of customization to the UI and it is pretty fast.

    Mac OS is a variation of BSD that tends to run best on mac hardware, which tends to be more expensive, so I've never used it. Windows is the standard for operating systems, that supports the most hardware and software and is used by the most people (on desktops). As the saying goes, no one ever got fired for recommending windows. Linux is becoming ubiquitous on servers, but causes the most problems for desktop users. It's arguably cheaper to run, because you don't have the option of buying much software for it.

    My personal opinion is that windows is best for game developers. You can run a type of linux on it, if you care about a minuscule market, and you're constantly testing the most common operating system (besides android). Mac is a strong contender for other developers. Linux should be used only by zealots and other madmen (like me). 🙂

    Seriously, I recommend linux for old and/or non-technical folks who have a family geek to maintain it. Windows is easier to screw-up, so your geek will be busier cleaning junk off of it. My grandmother nearly fell victim to an anti-virus scam. I happened to visit her while the scammers were "cleaning" her computer, so I immediately unplugged it and called her bank to stop payment. I then installed linux on her system and told her to ignore any warnings of viruses she got or requests for money regarding her computer. She was perfectly happy with linux to the end of her days.

    cybereality I use makemkv for blurays. It's technically paid software, but it's been in beta-test for over a decade, so it's free to use. The part that decrypts the disc is distributed in binary form.

        Windows' ease of use and popularity makes it a nice target for viruses. That's the only real downside I notice, other than that it constantly updates with unnecessary things. A developer would be better off with more space for their games over the extras.

        I have used all three operating systems at one point or another as my daily driver and my opinion is that they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

        Linux is great for allowing you to customize and tailor things exactly as you want it, and is quite nice for C++ and C development. Biggest downside is that you have to compile almost everything (pro or con) and Linux support is almost always an afterthought in many applications. Generally if there is a Linux version, it has bugs and/or is not as well supported, though there are exceptions.

        MacOS is great for mobile development on iOS (though it is the only way to do it, so...) and great for developing C/C++ while also having greater OS support with major applications. It also has a nice flow and generally is very stable. The biggest downside is that you are locked into the MacOS ecosystem and sometimes MacOS has specific oddities due to how their libraries are compared to Linux or Windows, which can be more predictable due to their open nature.

        Windows is great for almost everything, but I would argue for statically compiled languages like C and C++, it is much more painful to develop for. What Windows has going for it though is great support for almost all applications, the "it just works" factor is higher than MacOS and WAY higher than Linux. You might find an application that mostly works on MacOS or Linux, but on Windows, it generally works like it is supposed to out of the box. It also has the best support for games and game development, as the majority of game players are on Windows. The biggest downside is Windows is kinda heavy for an OS (though it has gotten better with Windows 10, not sure on 11). I'm not a fan of the Windows specific C/C++ libraries, which can cause some issues if you are doing OS related stuff, but admittedly if you are not programming in C/C++ then you're unlikely to notice.

        Of the three, I have consistently returned to Windows. The factor that it just works for the majority of the applications I need to run and use, as well as for games I want to play, are big draws. MacOS and Linux are great too though, especially for non-game development work.

        duane I use makemkv for blurays.

        Yes, I am able to rip Blu-Ray discs, but not just play them. And it takes like an hour or two, by the time it finishes I wasted the window I had to watch the movie. I just play discs on my PS5 as that is easier and it works.

            No those tutorials are old. I guess someone got in trouble a few years back so they removed the feature.

            Just a few days ago I had an experience with MS Soaftware that reminded me why I switched to GNU/Linux. I tried the Unity Game Engine, which wants Visual Studio as an Editor. Other editors work as well, but then there is no type-ahead or class reference lookup. Both Unity and Visual Studio Code can be installed in user space alone, so that was a good experience, but then I realized that Visual Studio had redirected all editable file types to Visual Studio. Had to skim through them and set them back manually, and there where a lot of them. So I keep tinkering on Linux :-)

            All development environments imaginable are available on Linux, many like Python, C, C++, ... come with it actually. With a plethora of software to choose from. For someone who wants to get into coding it should be a no-brainer to opt for Linux these days. It also doesn't get in the way, or distracts with ads or forces updates or virus checkers on us, if that's a criteria.

            I have heard that some Blue-Ray decodings doesn't work, out of legal reasons. But that's no problem for me.

            My 6700XT runs smoothly with the open source driver RADV and full Vulcan support.

            Until last september, I had to keep a Windows PC for drivers to control a telescope mount and connected cameras. There was no native Linux port avaibale when I bought them.

            The ideal system for the past and this millennium is NT. The closest thing to ideal is Win 7. All good things are in the past. Win 11 is a step from 10 to 7, in the opposite (right) direction.

            Is it possible to make an operating system based on Godot?

              Linux is fine. There are very few apps that don't work, but even then sometimes there are work arounds, such as with WINE. Plus there are tons of free software that probably does as good a job or better (like is the case with Blender). Gaming is in a pretty good place. For a while you needed Windows to game, but nearly everything works on Linux now (or a good 90% of single player games). Multiplayer is an issue because of anti-cheat, but this isn't a Linux issue, this is an issue of anti-cheat (and DRM) makers using hacking techniques to install themselves in the kernel when they should never have that kind of access in the first place. The fact that it works on Windows is a bug, not a feature.

              Mac sucks for gaming, as it always has. You can do some emulation or VM stuff, but it's nowhere near as robust or performant as Linux. You just really limit yourself with Mac. With Windows at least you get all the software and some guarantee things are going to work. With Mac you get a small subset of the software available, things do still work, but you can't play games. Though I guess if you are some trendy hipster, that Apple logo makes you look cool (or so you think). It's mostly a brand thing, like spending $300 on Beats headphones when you can get $60 ones that sound just as good.

              So the Mac users I understand, they just want to feel rich or something. But the Windows users I don't get. They spend all their time complaining about Bill Gates, about ads on the desktop, getting hacked, spyware, having to reinstall every 6 months, and it generally not being a good OS. But they won't even give Linux a chance. Makes no sense.

                Sitting here with 2 visual studios currently open in windows 10 and not regretting it in the least, despite multiple linux boxes nearby. I was using linux as my main PC OS back in the early Slackware days. I even rent a VPS linux box in Singapore for network game server hosting (as part of the classes I teach on low level network programming).
                I MUCH prefer Windows and Visual Studio for development.

                  So far, I'm gathering that nobody prefers Mac. Interesting.

                  So it's the usual "I use this and I'm happy for whatever reasons", diversity, I love it, and I hope it stays so !

                  Back in the day I had an Apple ][. But apart from that I never owned an Apple product any more. In the beginning they were too expensive, then they got too proprietary for my taste. Recently read a benchmark where a 8000 Euro Apple M2 was beaten by AMD and Intel setups that cost a fourth. In this life I'm probably not tempted to try one.

                  Kojack I MUCH prefer Windows and Visual Studio for development.

                  That is what I thought for a while, but I switched to CLion, and it's vastly superior to VS (and works cross-platform). While JetBrains do make plug-ins for VS, their IDEs are top notch. For C++ it does so much more in terms of refactoring, real time error highlights, suggestions on problems that won't get caught by the compiler, way better auto-complete, better themes, etc. It does cost money, but it's fairly cheap, I think like $10 a month. Not that Visual Studio is bad, it still is pretty nice, but it's not the best anymore.

                      As I mentioned in the other (locked) language thread, anyone used QNX for development?
                      QNX has it's own network system (costs extra for TCP/IP support, the client didn't want that). Each computer has a node number. When you install the QNX (for around $4000au+ per copy) it asks you for the node number (must be unique on the network). We had one box running QNX, we set it to node 1 iirc.
                      The client then sent us a test machine already installed with their setup. It was node 200. We connected it to the network.
                      It wouldn't work.
                      The second QNX box refused to network BECAUSE IT COULDN'T FIND COMPUTERS NUMBERED 2-199 ALSO ON THE NETWORK!
                      You can't change a node number without reinstalling either.

                      I hated that OS.

                      @Nerdzmasterz , if you have an old PC around just install a Linux with a desktop you might like and get going.

                      Just suggesting wildly, try Debian and XFCE if you like it easy, Ubuntu ("the Windows among the Linuxes", hehehe) if you just want it running with as much hard-/software support as possible, or any of the countless others. Mint with Cinnamon is another light and easy one, KDE desktop for instance if you love as colourful as possible. You can also just run a window manager without a full blown desktop. No distractions pls :-)

                      If you're unfamiliar with the command line, I'd recommend "The Linux Command Line" lates edition from No Starch press.as bathroom reading.

                      Edit: QNX, never heard of before, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX.

                      I run Debian Sid (bacause full Vucan support for the RX6700XT without having to install the proprietary driver), various editors for my tinkering with C/C++, from Nano to Eclipse CDT. I don't mean to really recommand or insist, it fits my needs and ... agenda :-)

                      Nerdzmasterz Most Linux distros are fairly similar in terms of functionality. There are a lot of flavors in terms of the look of the windows and the options, but they can generally all do the same things. My personal favorite is Ubuntu. It's easy to use, looks great, it's popular so most of the tutorials and info will include Ubuntu first, and it's generally pretty stable.

                      https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop

                      I would recommend live booting rather than doing a VM. VMs are slow and can't access the graphics, so you won't be able to test Godot or Blender or anything serious. With a live USB you can test the whole OS but not overwrite anything on your machine. Try it for a few hours, and if you like it you can dual boot on your machine with Windows as well. I did this for about 3 years before I was comfortable enough to switch to Linux full time.

                        cybereality
                        It was quite popular as an embedded system in medical equipment back around the 90's (I was using the desktop version in 1999). It was also known for it's free version that had a live bootable version of the OS with gui desktop, internet support and a browser that fit on a single 3.5" floppy disk, as a marketing gimmick. But it was primarily an enterprise OS.

                          Yes, this is definitely the best Linux book out there, and I've read a ton.

                          cybereality They spend all their time complaining about Bill Gates, about ads on the desktop, getting hacked, spyware, having to reinstall every 6 months, and it generally not being a good OS.

                          Maybe that's because the complainers are simply heard? Not only have I forgotten about such problems myself, but I also provide technical support on the game site, and there are fewer issues there over time when users follow my recommendations. Ads on the desktop — I don't even know what they look like, but yes, I don't have an M$ account. Reinstalling... Win 7 worked without reinstalling... can't remember exactly how long, but about 10 with cloning different boot disks.

                          The only reasonable complaint is about Bill Gates, but that's a question of the corporate model and social structure of society. The only thing worse than capitalism is socialism.

                          Is it better to replace all the complaints about windows with finding drivers for linux? Then there will definitely be no time left to complain. 😃

                          However, we have already discussed all this…

                            cybereality

                            Well, at the risk of beating a dead horse, it took me about ten minutes to get a bluray to play on my gentoo system with mpv and makemkv. It would have been a lot quicker, but I decided to run it in firejail, just to make it challenging. It's kind of a sad statement when getting a disc to play on your OS is grounds for excitement. 🙂

                            The instructions were in the ebuild for makemkv. I knew I'd seen them somewhere.

                              Well that is cool, but I'm kind of over it at this point. I'd rather watch on the PS5 with 4K and HDR anyhow.

                              One of the best things about Linux is that you have choices:

                                DaveTheCoder One of the best things about Linux is that you have choices:

                                That is, it is not enough to find a program just "for Linux", you have to find out which of the 100500+ versions it more or less works well on?

                                    Tomcat That is, it is not enough to find a program just "for Linux", you have to find out which of the 100500+ versions it more or less works well on?

                                    Not really. There are essentially only two main executable files *.deb (which spawned from Debian) and *.rpm (from Red Hat Linux). The most popular distros are based on Debian, like Ubuntu or Mint. And if you are on a distro that doesn't support those two, it doesn't matter much because you download apps from the package manager (sort of like an app store where everything is free). These will be compiled and customized by the maintainers of the distro and verified to work. It is very rare that you ever download like a exe file off some random website, it's not like Windows. However, if you are on a niche distro or the app you are looking for is also obscure, you'll probably have to compile it yourself from the source code, but this isn't as difficult as it sounds.

                                      Someone on Udemy claimed the people who can compile things themselves from Git are "immortals". How ridiculous! 😆

                                      Still, the large choices in a Linux seems like it could be very daunting. I say "could", as some people may not have much problem with them. For others, it may feel like a lot of freedom to do whatever.

                                        So what are people then who write real programs, like game engines or even OSes :-) ? Or just little renderers or even only application programs ? Ist there a hierarchy of immortality ? Can I level up ? :-)

                                        It is a good idea to learn the basics of the command line, and maybe an editor that is avilable everywhere. One can click around on any desktop or standard software, including most IDEs, they are pretty intuitive, but the power lies in the CL, and doesn't change between distros.

                                        I can only speak for myself and I am just a hobbyist, not one whose dreams compile -Wall. I just got stuck with Debian because its ecosystem is good enough for me and because it has no undisclosed features if one sticks to the free part of the repository. That's probably how most people handle it ?

                                        tl,dr: You can choose, but you don't have to.

                                        And I hate it when my choice is being ignored or even limited without asking, like last time I tried MS Software did on me.

                                        And I believe @Tomcat was joking ?

                                        Back to the Godot tutorials :-)