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  • BimbamBimbam Posts: 310Member
    edited December 2021

    Credit where it's due, the grass is explained here:
    but is conceptually pretty straightforward. I just added some additional colour randomisation, heightmap/poisson sampled the position and split it into tileable chunks that are background loaded. The chunks have LOD too so grass that's further away is bigger/more spread out, with levels of alpha dither to remove (hopefully) the seems.

    Lighting is..... time-consuming. But no reflection/GIProbes here, too expensive with the Godrays plugin. I did find there was a sweet spot with the distance fog/sun effect/glow that created a volumetric look even if it's not real so reckon with enough fiddling with exposure/colour profile I could remove the Godrays and you'd only really 'notice' it missing when looking through branches, but as this was never intended to be a game I'm not too fussed. Thinking about it though you could enable area based godrays so they're 'off' most of the time.

    It turns out 3D is hard lol.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    Yeah, fog is a cheap way to add atmosphere, as long as you do it subtly.

  • BimbamBimbam Posts: 310Member
    edited December 2021

    A problem I have in a separate game idea is trying to combine fog/distance blur and a moon at night. Fog lighting at night is not consistent to how I imagine it should work in my head and I have no idea how to exclude an object from distance blur :(

    Result is fog that illuminates the trees and a blurry moon. There's a myriad of other reasons this side project got put on hold though so no need to try and fix it lol. Chances are I'll learn how to fix it while working on another side ting anyway.

    I like to think at some point I will actually finish a game, but tbh I enjoy making small random scenes/effects just as much if not more than working on one big project so not fussed.

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member

    @fire7side said:

    @Erich_L said:

    Yeah I can’t wait to see what important menu they hid that’s going to take me over a year to find. There’s nothing like an Easter egg hunt! =)

    I saw one thing they did finally, you can just right click and close a window in the menu instead of the convoluted way it was before. I think their changes look good from the little video. I guess cycles is faster. I hardly use it though. There's kind of a library setup now for materials, models, etc. Probably the most useful new thing.

    You can also create pose libraries now to make animating a lot easier, and in between poses for extra keyframes are much easier now, so this stuff is useful for game devs too. 6 minute video of the new features.

    Side note, their latest shortfilm was meant to look like a stop motion, and I'm sure that's what led them to add a pose library and especially improve the workflow to make new in-between keyframes as that would have been critical. My point is that the fact that they make films with their product helps them figure out the features they need, which is why I think it would be really cool if Godot did this.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    Yeah, you can't really solve that with a simple effect, at least it it's just one color. Usually you don't want the fog to be lighter than your background. If it is around the same color, then it looks convincing. So for night you'd probably make it closer to black. Not sure if fog allows object culling, I imagine it's a global thing, but depth based fog can sometimes have additional parameters.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    Shameless self promotion for the demo I'm working on. The graphics are finalized, need to work on the camera and add an options menu. Originally started as a way to test a screen space stereo 3d shader I was writing, but I kind of got carried away and now it is a full blown tech demo.

    You can read more about it and see more pictures here:
    https://godotforums.org/discussion/28254/decay-photo-realistic-real-time-demo-made-in-godot

  • BimbamBimbam Posts: 310Member
    edited December 2021

    Re. Blender. Can anyone actually tell me if Geometry nodes are 'worth it' for someone who mostly does photo modeling or single assets or should I just suck it up because "it's the future"?

    I already invested ~half a year just into getting comfy with hard surface modeling and the very basics of animating/rigging. Are geometry nodes actually any faster as a workflow for generating single models for a hobbyist? or is this purely an economy of scale thing for professionals/large procedural scenes like cities & the like?

    I keep seeing videos about it and I keep thinking "Pretty sure I could do that faster by abusing modifiers".

    Plus if I'm going fully procedural for somethiung, chances are I'm going to need to do it in engine.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    Wow, the new Blender looks amazing! I have the Ubuntu Snap, so it auto-updated already and I noticed last time I opened it but didn't try the new features. Guess it kinds of loses the hype when you don't have to pay money or download anything. Just watched the new movie too, so good.

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 4,822Admin

    @Bimbam said:
    Re. Blender. Can anyone actually tell me if Geometry nodes are 'worth it' for someone who mostly does photo modeling or single assets or should I just suck it up because "it's the future"?

    It's not a replacement for traditional modeling if that is what you are asking. But can enhance your productivity for sure. Still I'd wait for some UI/UX and uber-node plugins if you want to work easier and higher level(as opposed to more complexity and more power).

  • Erich_LErich_L Posts: 702Member
    edited December 2021

    @cybereality @Bimbam your projects are absolutely awesome and they both pump me up to improve my own godot game. =) =)

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member
    edited December 2021

    @Bimbam said:
    Re. Blender. Can anyone actually tell me if Geometry nodes are 'worth it' for someone who mostly does photo modeling or single assets or should I just suck it up because "it's the future"?

    I already invested ~half a year just into getting comfy with hard surface modeling and the very basics of animating/rigging. Are geometry nodes actually any faster as a workflow for generating single models for a hobbyist? or is this purely an economy of scale thing for professionals/large procedural scenes like cities & the like?

    I keep seeing videos about it and I keep thinking "Pretty sure I could do that faster by abusing modifiers".

    Plus if I'm going fully procedural for somethiung, chances are I'm going to need to do it in engine.

    they are meant for more procedural meshes, so no they will not replace hard surface modeling. I think they would in general be more useful for 3d animation, when you want to get a complex animation effect.

    However I think they can be helpful when modeling more complex meshes too, but I don't know much about this yet. I'm pretty sure you won't have to learn them if you don't want to.

    I don't think there are very many tutorials yet, tho blender guru has one which is sure to be good, but I haven't tried it yet.

    Anyway, basically they will not replace what you know, they will only build onto it, so it's totally up to you.

    (edited this like 3 times, srry to anyone who saw the first ones and is wondering where the heck they went)

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member

    I wish minecraft had more interesting melee combat. Nothing too fancy, just some dodge, timed blocking, and parry mechanics would be awesome.

    Anything that let's you have some semblance of this: https://youtu.be/2tEsn5sHEcc

  • CarviiCarvii Posts: 27Member

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    I wish minecraft had more interesting melee combat. Nothing too fancy, just some dodge, timed blocking, and parry mechanics would be awesome.

    I agree personally but can see why it doesn't, Minecraft is meant to be "the people's game" of sorts and I already know some who struggle with it's combat even in it's simple state. So from Mojang's perspective I can totally see why they wouldn't put a ton of effort into the combat elements.

    One way they actually balance combat well though that I see as an inspiration for my own games is how significantly more challenging enemies (ex. wardens coming soon, the ender dragon, gaurdians) being harder to get to meaning players won't just stumble across them, and more experienced players probably will.

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member

    @Carvii said:

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    I wish minecraft had more interesting melee combat. Nothing too fancy, just some dodge, timed blocking, and parry mechanics would be awesome.

    I agree personally but can see why it doesn't, Minecraft is meant to be "the people's game" of sorts and I already know some who struggle with it's combat even in it's simple state. So from Mojang's perspective I can totally see why they wouldn't put a ton of effort into the combat elements.

    One way they actually balance combat well though that I see as an inspiration for my own games is how significantly more challenging enemies (ex. wardens coming soon, the ender dragon, gaurdians) being harder to get to meaning players won't just stumble across them, and more experienced players probably will.

    Good points, but I see several ways they could fix this.

    A: Add these to a different mode, like how permadeath is only in hardcore mode.

    B: (my favorite) Make basic attack spamming still work fine on small numbers of enemies, but design these mechanics to be really useful for crowd control.

    The way I see it, if you are not very good at combat, you are probably relying on armour, potions, or staying in your base at night. With option B, you can just continue doing what you are doing, be smart with armor, how late you stay out, and how many mobs you attack. However, if you like combat this would give you the option to really excel, and fight off mobs with poorer armor, stay out late, etc.

    Basically I'm saying. If you are are relying on how prepared you are, and then you end up in a situation where mobs are attacking you, and you are not prepared and you die, that's fair.

    But if you rely on combat skills, and end up in a situtation where mobs are attacking, and you don't have good armor, and you beat the odds through mastered combat mechanics, that is also fair.

    I liked your points tho, they all made sense.

    Interesting fact, I just got minecraft this year (I know, I know,) and I haven't even seen the ender dragon yet. lol

  • Erich_LErich_L Posts: 702Member

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    Interesting fact, I just got minecraft this year (I know, I know,) and I haven't even seen the ender dragon yet. lol

    RIP OpinionatedGamer's indie game dev plans. Minecraft's sales would indicate they've been doing something right. The fact I've been able to play the game with men, children, and women speaks a ton to me to inclusivity (not a word I guess but whatev). I've never introduced minecraft to a kid who didn't love it immediately. The combat is simple but surviving isn't that easy. Imagine you've been a little reckless and you're at the bottom of a cave with one heart. How confident are you that you can make it back to the surface if you didn't set torches?

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 5,348Admin
    edited December 2021

    I think the case with Minecraft combat is interesting, even thought its not very complex currently. I'm not up to date with the latest changes, but I thought the change to make axes ignore armor (at least somewhat) was an interesting change. I think it would be interesting if they expanded this idea a bit, maybe give some variety to the weapons to make combat more interesting.

    @Carvii said:
    I agree personally but can see why it doesn't, Minecraft is meant to be "the people's game" of sorts and I already know some who struggle with it's combat even in it's simple state. So from Mojang's perspective I can totally see why they wouldn't put a ton of effort into the combat elements.

    Yeah, I think this is one of the biggest reasons why combat has mostly stayed the same. It is a pretty accessible game and I think keeping it simple to play is important to Mojang.

    Another factor that probably plays into this is the amount of devices that can play Minecraft and the input methods they have. Mobile, for example, has to be fully playable with just a touchscreen and that can impose limitations on more complicated fighting mechanics.

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    B: (my favorite) Make basic attack spamming still work fine on small numbers of enemies, but design these mechanics to be really useful for crowd control.

    This would be an interesting idea, though I wonder how it would best be implemented from a technical standpoint. I think it would be a good way to introduce more complexity to the game without making it too difficult for those new to the game.


    Side note but related to Minecraft: I thought the initial Pistons mod was pretty cool, as it could launch sand, gravel, and other physics-enabled blocks into the air similar to that of activated TNT. It made some interesting possibilities and visuals. It was probably removed due to technicalities and for performance, but I thought it was one of the most interesting aspects of the original Pistons mod.

  • jbskaggsjbskaggs Posts: 909Member
    edited December 2021

    I know people who would live in minecraft if they could. All my kids love it- from 32yo down to 13yo.

    I have never played it, but I have watched many a hour watching kids play it- many times as a group cheering and bickering the way my dad's generation did sports.

    There is a genius behind the mechanics and design that makes it such a broad appeal to people.

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member
    edited December 2021

    @Erich_L said:

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    Interesting fact, I just got minecraft this year (I know, I know,) and I haven't even seen the ender dragon yet. lol

    RIP OpinionatedGamer's indie game dev plans. Minecraft's sales would indicate they've been doing something right. The fact I've been able to play the game with men, children, and women speaks a ton to me to inclusivity (not a word I guess but whatev). I've never introduced minecraft to a kid who didn't love it immediately. The combat is simple but surviving isn't that easy. Imagine you've been a little reckless and you're at the bottom of a cave with one heart. How confident are you that you can make it back to the surface if you didn't set torches?

    I'm not saying survival is easy, it's not. I'm saying the bare bone combat itself is a little dull. The setup, stakes, preparation, and stats and stuff are all really cool, but the swordplay is as simple as clicking and blocking. I'm not saying we should make it harder, I just want more attack/movement options to make it more fun/ allow more options to get really good at it. The more I think about it the more it makes sense to focus these on crowd control, I just think that would be really fun. I am prolly in the minority tho.

    You're right tho, combat is fun in a way just because of the strategy and buildup, I can't really describe it the way I want, pretty much what you said.

    @jbskaggs said:

    There is a genius behind the mechanics and design that makes it such a broad appeal to people.

    Yeah, it's awesome! It's rare to meet people who haven't played it. I'm not sure why it's so good it just is.

  • DaveTheCoderDaveTheCoder Posts: 891Member

    Doesn't lerp sound like a derogatory term?

    "My neighbor is a real lerp."

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 4,822Admin

    It's been the shorthand for linear interpolation for as long as I can remember.

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 4,822Admin

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    I'm not saying survival is easy, it's not. I'm saying the bare bone combat itself is a little dull. The setup, stakes, preparation, and stats and stuff are all really cool, but the swordplay is as simple as clicking and blocking. I'm not saying we should make it harder, I just want more attack/movement options to make it more fun/ allow more options to get really good at it. The more I think about it the more it makes sense to focus these on crowd control, I just think that would be really fun. I am prolly in the minority tho.

    The problem is the combat was never the focal point of the game. It's something along the lines of "Do one thing, but do it well."

  • xyzxyz Posts: 940Member
    edited December 2021

    @DaveTheCoder said:
    Doesn't lerp sound like a derogatory term?

    "My neighbor is a real lerp."

    Slerp is much worse then. Sounds like a chieftan of a pack o' lerps

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    Your mother's a Quat.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    OMG, I can't believe how amazing the Blender 3.0 real-time preview is. It renders at full animated movie quality in a few seconds. I remember when I started in 3D, renders like this would take 30 minutes or an hour for 1 frame (and probably wouldn't even look as good). And they are giving it away for free, best 3D package ever. Check this video I just made.

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 5,348Admin

    I have not tried Blender 3.0 yet, but I'm always super impressed with how rapidly Blender development goes and how feature packed it has been recently! It seems like every release, major or minor, is filled with goodies to explore and use.

    The video looks great! It's really impressive how good the new real-time rendering looks, especially since I think it's raytraced as part of Cycles X. Combined with Eevee, now there is choices for GPUs big and small for real-time (or close to) rendering. Will be cool to see what is possible with all the new additions and features.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    Yeah, for sure. Here is how it looks in real-time, which is still very nice and more than good enough for the purposes of game modeling. I was fronting on Blender for a while (and paying out my butt to Autodesk) but I'm sure Blender is significantly better now.

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member
    edited December 2021

    Blenders game engine was awful, and it was a good decision to remove it and instead focus on making compatability with open source game engines like godot, but it eevee would have made a great game render engine for it if it still existed.

    Hopefully Godot's rendering will look as good someday. =) Godot 4 will be a big step forward.

    I love blender, it is such an amazing tool and it keeps getting better and better, especially since 2.8.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 5,344Moderator

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    Hopefully Godot's rendering will look as good someday. =) Godot 4 will be a big step forward.

    You don't have to wait for Godot 4.0. Godot 3.4 looks amazing right now. Check out some screenshots from the demo I'm working on. It should be done in the next week, you'll be able to try it and see for yourself.
    https://godotforums.org/discussion/28254/decay-photo-realistic-real-time-demo-made-in-godot

  • OpinionatedGamerOpinionatedGamer Posts: 252Member

    That does look good, nice job! I'll just have to do more testing with light probes and stuff, haven't gotten a game far enough to really work on graphics yet.

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 4,822Admin

    @OpinionatedGamer said:
    Blenders game engine was awful, and it was a good decision to remove it and instead focus on making compatability with open source game engines like godot, but it eevee would have made a great game render engine for it if it still existed.

    Eh it was decent for a playstation 1 engine(no, really).

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