Split professional trade forum?

PouleyKetchouppPouleyKetchoupp Posts: 1Member

Hello,

The professional trade forum is a great place for both contractors looking for jobs and individuals or companies proposing some work, but I wonder if it could be split into two different boards to make things clearer:

  • One dedicated to developers or artists putting their profile there, so professionals can look for the talent they need and contact them individually,
  • One dedicated to posting job announcements.

From my experience, it's a bit messy to go through all the posts to find what you want, even when filtering by tags, because you're generally looking for one or the other depending what side of the equation you're on and it's all mixed together.

What do you think?

Comments

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 3,549Admin

    I'm not strictly speaking against it but I'm not entirely sure that this is the best place to be looking for artists in the first place. Maybe technical artists? Anyways, I suppose if @TwistedTwigleg is also fine with it we could do that.

    Biggest challenge will be trying to separate and mass migrate a bunch of posts to another category. Just a lot of manual labor.

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 4,277Admin
    edited April 26

    I agree with @Megalomaniak that I'm not really sure the forums is the ideal place for those looking to hire artists, at least not currently. The majority of the posts in the professional trade category, from what I have observed, is mostly technical work if the work is visual. However, I am not per say against it. I think for artists it might be better to link to a portfolio site rather than directly posting the portfolio here, just because of how the forum template/posting works.

    However, I think a better way to categorize the split is to split it into sub categories. One sub category could be for those looking for a Godot-related job (I.E profile/portfolio posting) and another for those looking to hire. That way, we're not necessarily categorizing beyond the purpose of the post, leaving it a bit more open ended. This would also make it easier for individuals in any field related to game development (art, writing, music, design, etc) to know where to post.
    We could also have a third sub category for those looking to form groups that are revenue share and/or just looking to make a game together (so not necessarily "hiring" but looking for developers), or we could put them in the "hiring" category.

    That's just my two cents on the matter though. I'm not against the idea of making changes to the category if it would make things better for users.

  • Erich_LErich_L Posts: 19Member

    @Megalomaniak said:
    I'm not strictly speaking against it but I'm not entirely sure that this is the best place to be looking for artists in the first place. Maybe technical artists? Anyways, I suppose if @TwistedTwigleg is also fine with it we could do that.

    Biggest challenge will be trying to separate and mass migrate a bunch of posts to another category. Just a lot of manual labor.

    For the Godot community, is there some reason this is not the place to look for skilled help/share ones own skills/find people to work together with? Is there another Godot forum for that, or do you mean because of the way these forums are laid out?

    I think if I were splitting it I’d dump all the discussions into general then add the 2-3 empty new boards. Or.. what would really take more time, manually splitting posts or training a classifier to do it? :#

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 4,277Admin

    @Erich_L said:

    @Megalomaniak said:
    I'm not strictly speaking against it but I'm not entirely sure that this is the best place to be looking for artists in the first place. Maybe technical artists? Anyways, I suppose if @TwistedTwigleg is also fine with it we could do that.

    Biggest challenge will be trying to separate and mass migrate a bunch of posts to another category. Just a lot of manual labor.

    For the Godot community, is there some reason this is not the place to look for skilled help/share ones own skills/find people to work together with? Is there another Godot forum for that, or do you mean because of the way these forums are laid out?

    I am pretty sure you are misunderstanding.

    I believe what Megalomaniak was meaning, and what I mentioned in my post as well, is that for artists (visual), that the forums are probably not the best place to look/find professional work. It’s not because because its not possible or that we’re against it, but rather the forum format isn’t really ideal for showcasing visual artistic work.
    There’s several reasons for this, but to mention a couple real quick:

    • No carousel support for images, so posts with lots of images take up a bunch of vertical space or they have to be spoilers, which isn’t visible at a glance
    • No way to theme the post or the visuals around it - just text, images, video, etc

    This isn’t to say artists cannot post their work or look for jobs here, its just that its probably not the ideal format for it.

    Rest assured we are aware that this is a forum for the Godot community and we make decisions accordingly. We carefully evaluate any decisions we make to the forums.

    I think if I were splitting it I’d dump all the discussions into general then add the 2-3 empty new boards. Or.. what would really take more time, manually splitting posts or training a classifier to do it? :#

    I think we should not dump all the discussions into General. It would be a nightmare to sort through and figure out. It would be much easier to simply process all of the discussions manually than dump them in general or train an AI/classifier to process them.
    (It would also be more accurate if done by a human rather than machine)

    If we make a change to split the professional trade category, then we should move all relevant discussions currently in the professional trade category into the relevant categories so its tidy and organized, as that would be the intent of the split to begin with.

    Regardless, if we do any splitting/organization/changes to the professional trade category, the process will take time as we process and adjust based on the changes. This process will likely be done gradually over time, to make the burden easier on us in forum staff and make the change smooth.

    Currently however, this is just a proposal. We have not committed to splitting the professional trade category yet, nor have we ruled out the idea.

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 3,549Admin

    I meant that a game development forum mostly consisting of developers is perhaps not the best place to find artists to hire. Going to forums such as blenderartists.org or polycount.com etc. is probably a better option.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 1,431Moderator

    Personally I dislike forums that have 1,000 sub-categories. It just makes things hard to navigate, and you get less action on your posts since people have to sift through all the sections and probably won't find it. Also, the forum is relatively small, I don't think right now it is unmanageable as-is. Just post in the most relevant section, there is not so much activity that we have to be splitting things up (but at some point maybe it could make sense).

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 3,549Admin

    But by the point the forums scale makes it 'make sense' there will be even more migratory work to separate all the topics to their relevant new categories. Perhaps the oldest ones beyond a certain topic starting date can be simply archived in a closed archival category but still.

    It's probably better to go ahead with this sooner rather than later if we believe that it will make sense down the line.

  • Erich_LErich_L Posts: 19Member

    Would it have to be done through the website interface? If it's all on a accessible sql database, maybe you could outsource the work to volunteers. Invite gooddoers to add a post such as "[][][][]Job announcement[][][][]" to job announcements, with one line of sql reassign all discussions with posts having that string to the new category. Later another line to delete all those [][] posts.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 1,431Moderator

    You don't get down to SQL, it's within the interface to move topics. It's just boring and time consuming.

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 4,277Admin

    @Erich_L said:
    Would it have to be done through the website interface? If it's all on a accessible sql database, maybe you could outsource the work to volunteers. Invite gooddoers to add a post such as "[][][][]Job announcement[][][][]" to job announcements, with one line of sql reassign all discussions with posts having that string to the new category. Later another line to delete all those [][] posts

    As @cybereality said, it’s not through SQL. Even if it was, doing a generic query on the table would only minimize some of the work and could lead to discussions being incorrectly categorized.
    As for volunteer help: while I appreciate the idea and the help it could bring, this will not be happening. Overseeing such a task would take energy that could instead be directly used to move the posts.


    As for the split itself, here’s what I propose we do:

    • Add two new subcategories to the professional trade category: one for those offering jobs and one for those looking for jobs
    • Then, we can start moving discussions from the professional trade category to one of the two subcategories. Since the professional trade category will still be there as the main category, we can move discussions over time without needing to worry.

      • During this time, it will just be like if newer posts are categorized into the subcategories as we go through the old ones. This should mean no one on forum staff needs to spend long, boring hours migrating. It can instead be done in small bursts whenever.
    • Once all discussions are moved, we can either make the professional trade category unable to be posted in, meaning users will need to post in one of the two sub categories instead of professional trade, or we leave it and move the occasional discussions to the correct subcategory when necessary.

      • one pro for leaving the professional trade category open for posting after moving all discussions is that the professional trade category can act like a catch all for discussions that do not quite fit into the subcategories.

    @Megalomaniak @cybereality - what do you think about the plan above?

  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 3,549Admin

    Yep that's basically what I was thinking too.

  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 1,431Moderator

    Yeah, I think that is reasonable.

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 4,277Admin

    Awesome, then let's move forward with that as the plan.

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 4,277Admin

    Okay, I added two new sub categories to the professional trade category: "Job Seeking" and "Job Offering". Not totally sure on the names, but it's what the Unity forums use, so I figure its probably okay for now at least.

  • TwistedTwiglegTwistedTwigleg Posts: 4,277Admin

    Alright, that wasn't as bad as I'd thought it would be. All professional trade discussions have been moved into the sub categories :smiley:

  • Erich_LErich_L Posts: 19Member

    Amazing how a first post from someone got so much done ;)

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