Unity's new price structure and how it affects Godot

Elf_EarsElf_Ears Posts: 37Member
edited December 1969 in General Chat
http://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/05/31/new-products-and-prices/<br /><br />You thought it was only Adobe... but now Unity has adopted the same terrible approach!<br />That's right! You can no longer purchase Unity forever, software as a service is coming and is (presumably) here to stay! (unless they backpedal)<br />I've already been seeing backlash so here are my predictions...<br /><br />[tt]This is good news for us as it means:[/tt]<br />
    <br />[li]More potential users and engine developers who have switched due to dissatisfaction with Unity[/li]<br />[li]More people recommending the Godot Engine over unity??? (still needs work on the networking and 3D fronts is otherwise fully featured)[/li]
<br />[tt]Overall:[/tt]<br />
    [li]Better publicity of the Godot engine[/li]<br />[li]More games made with Godot G:[/li]<br />
<br /><br />This is also good news for the gaming industry as a whole (and possibly the software industry as well) as it might make people question these types of systems more and appreciate products which are more self contained (Godot being one of these  ;))<br /><br />Any of you guys excited? <br />(or do you see it playing out differently?)<br /><br />Ps. If this is the wrong board, I apologise... <br />I posted it here as I thought it would fit in with the theme of "The role of Godot Engine" and "The Industry"

Comments

  • beelzybeelzy Posts: 58Member
    It could, but I'm not that optimistic about it, if Adobe is anything to go by. When Adobe announced their CC only offering, there were plenty of mad people on their forums and elsewhere, who were skeptical that paying forever just to use a software tool was a good idea (and because of things like price hikes, and no incentive to offer useful features because they're going to get paid anyways). Some of those fears were not completely unfounded, but in the end, the skeptical people didn't exactly make that much of a dent in Adobe's pockets--sure they're probably still not using Photoshop, and I don't doubt a few of them managed to find other programs like Krita, except that Krita has more specialization than Photoshop, so that leaves a few other PS users looking for something else (eg, if you're not using PS for digital painting). The other problem is that this generally only affects freelancers and hobbyists--companies who have more money and need to rely on something dependable rather than affordable won't see the point in using free software, especially if they think it's anything at all like GIMP (and some hobbyists don't even bother to give other free software tools a chance because they think it will be like GIMP as well). And people looking to get hired by these companies won't be putting free software tools on their resume either.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong; I'd love it if people woke up and realized the implications of renting software tools rather than having the choice to own your tools forever or choose when or if you want to upgrade them, but there's just too many people and groups at this point who think they either don't need the switch or don't consider the free software alternatives to be adequate for their needs, and won't even try it. We do still need to convince them that it's worth it; not rely on the fact that some other big software company has decided to do a rental only model. It can help start people looking elsewhere, but it's not going to have as large an impact as it sounds like it could.
  • KioriKiori Posts: 246Member
    This will be a great thing, if/when Godot supports C#. If I was one of the Godot devs i'd make that a priority right now, to make the most of the exodus that will certainly come from Unity Bay.<br /><br />I'm not a C# fan, i think .net support will bloat the engine, and i really like GDscript, but the reality of the world is a lot of devs out there know and love c#...<br />And it will bring the world of static typing to us, which will make a lot of users happy.<br />Also, C# is in the middle between GD and C++ in a lot of ways, so maybe it's worth it regardless of whatever.<br /><br />Right now it's a wait and see. Frankly, the moment it supports C# i think the internet will take care of spreading the news. Microsoft for one is always keen on the latest tech that supports their turf.
  • KrisKris Posts: 14Member
    on 1464813525:
    <br />This will be a great thing, if/when Godot supports C#. If I was one of the Godot devs i'd make that a priority right now, to make the most of the exodus that will certainly come from Unity Bay.<br /><br />I'm not a C# fan, i think .net support will bloat the engine, and i really like GDscript, but the reality of the world is a lot of devs out there know and love c#...<br />And it will bring the world of static typing to us, which will make a lot of users happy.<br />Also, C# is in the middle between GD and C++ in a lot of ways, so maybe it's worth it regardless of whatever.<br /><br />Right now it's a wait and see. Frankly, the moment it supports C# i think the internet will take care of spreading the news. Microsoft for one is always keen on the latest tech that supports their turf.<br />
    <br /><br />How difficult is it to implement another programming language into a game engine? I like C# also, but I wouldn't think the developers would really consider adding this to the engine. If they would, then that'd be pretty amazing on top of the other things they're doing. I'd use the language too over GDscript.
  • KioriKiori Posts: 246Member
    on 1464814618:
    <br /> but I wouldn't think the developers would really consider adding this to the engine.<br />
    <br /><br />They said they would on the facebook group, or github, somewhere. I believe it's in the to-do list.
  • KrisKris Posts: 14Member
    on 1464815169:
    <br />
    on 1464814618:
    <br /> but I wouldn't think the developers would really consider adding this to the engine.<br />
    <br /><br />They said they would on the facebook group, or github, somewhere. I believe it's in the to-do list.<br />
    <br /><br />Color me impressed! I would totally follow that development.
  • Shin-NiLShin-NiL Posts: 158Member
    About .net plans:<br /><br />screenshot_www_facebook_com_2016_06_01_19_47_02.png
  • KioriKiori Posts: 246Member
    In a more recent statement he also explicitly mentioned c#.<br />And I believe he said it would come sooner than GDScript static typing, but don't quote me on that. :)
  • danjodanjo Posts: 81Member
    Reading about .NET support makes me kinda worried.. Isn't it Windows only?
  • BinaryOrangeBinaryOrange Posts: 244Member
    on 1464824111:
    <br />Reading about .NET support makes me kinda worried.. Isn't it Windows only?<br />
    <br /><br />No, not necessarily. There's plenty of open-source alternatives that basically allow you to use C# and .NET on Linux and OS X as well, but they're kind of iffy and tend to lag behind all of the updates. <br /><br />At least, that's what I think MonoDevelop is doing, but I could be wrong. <br /><br />I think Unity has indeed probably forced a good amount of users away. Those prices are steep, especially when there's so much competition right now. UE4 is still, for the foreseeable future, completely free (except for the 5% royalties you have to pay to Epic Games), and Godot is becoming significantly more popular this year as well. <br /><br />We'll see what happens with Unity. As others have said, when Adobe originally announced Creative Cloud, many people were upset. However, it let me use Adobe Premiere Pro for a small project for one month (I paid $20 to essentially "rent" the program), and I really liked it. If I were an independent filmmaker I would probably use it extensively, as $50/month is quite easy to fit in a budget, as long as you plan accordingly. <br /><br />I don't think the same model works with game development software though. Time to wait and see!
  • zendorfzendorf Posts: 9Member
    Yeah, I am not too thrilled about c# in Godot at this stage, but definitely keen on static typing of gdscript if it yields good performance gains. I feel that it is too early in the life of Godot to get competing languages and it may split the community at a crucial stage.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I like c#, but the implications for multi language support on documentation, tutorials and the higher level of bug reports is worrying. Think of the early days of Unity with the 3 potential languages...of course almost everyone uses c# now, but it can muddy the waters.<br /><br />Anyway, I am a fan of Python and gdscript, so I hope it remains the dominant Godot language.
  • NeoDNeoD Posts: 177Member
    I'm agree with zendorf I'd rather improvements on GDScript performance and features.<br />People who are comfortable with C# will have no difficulties to learn static GDScript.<br />We should not worry about people who want to be game developpers without making some learning efforts.
  • KioriKiori Posts: 246Member
    I'm happy to see more ppl being supportive of GdScript.<br /><br />+1 for continuing improvements on the GD front, be it static typing or whatnot.
  • Ace_DragonAce_Dragon Posts: 323Member
    Considering that GDscript and its built-in editor formed a key reason for me to come to Godot from the BGE, I too think the priorities in terms of programming performance and features should be centered on it.<br /><br />Having GDscript remain the centerpiece would also ensure that Godot remains a very lightweight engine (even as it becomes far more powerful in the 3D front with the future 3.0 release).
  • BinaryOrangeBinaryOrange Posts: 244Member
    Unity tried to "fix" their problems with the new pricing structure, but in my opinion they're still taking a giant leap of faith. <br /><br />Basically, all they did was increase the revenue cap for the plus plan from $100k to $200k. That's it. A lot of people are still very angry, and honestly, so am I, as now I have no incentive to stay with Unity in the long run. I was working on a project in there but I guess I will just have to work on porting it to Godot. The only reason I hadn't yet was because I was quite far along in coding, but it's definitely worth it to change it over to Godot.
  • KioriKiori Posts: 246Member
    I thought with the changes to "plus" removing the splash screen and revenue increase to 200k, now it's pretty good. You're talking $420 a year to do whatever you want in any platform in the engine, with all the features.<br /><br />If you're making real money off of games that's not too bad frankly. Until then you can use personal.<br /><br />I would choose Godot for other reasons, not financial.<br /><br />Reasons like engineering(I mentioned before), OSS, and frankly the fact that I have a bigger trust in the Godot devs, than in the Unity devs.<br /><br />Unity goes around i circles when adding new features...
  • BinaryOrangeBinaryOrange Posts: 244Member
    All good points. I'm just upset because I had invested tons of money into Unity via assets, and now they have changed their pricing structures (again). <br /><br />$420 a year really isn't so bad, but when you consider that the Unreal Engine (currently leading in features and graphics) and Godot are both free, it's really surprising to me that Unity would pick now to change their pricing strategies so much.
  • Ace_DragonAce_Dragon Posts: 323Member
    The change in strategy for pricing is good news for their current users, but they still have the monumental task of how to keep parts of Unity's architecture from breaking down whenever they make a change.<br /><br />Reading their forums, it looks like Unity's developing the infamous reputation of seeing new regressions pop up whenever a bug is fixed (even in their bugfix releases). The roundabout bugfixing/regression cycle may also be what's preventing them from getting to the point where they can confidently release version 5.4 so as to not see a lot of people complaining about how broken their projects are now.<br /><br />It seems to me that the biggest challenge for now is getting Unity's architecture to a more stable state (and what's not helping is the bureaucracy that plagues their bugfixing process, noting just how long it can take for a fix to wind its way through the system and the large amounts of information they expect from users before it's even considered).<br /><br />I know with Blender at least they have a high priority on fixes all through the release Cycle. The Godot devs. meanwhile have a different approach (they don't do it as much in the heavier stages, but boy does the bug/issue count fall like a stone once the major targets are in). Another good thing shared by the Blender and Godot projects is that the developers actually recognize just what systems could use a full rewrite (though it can take a while due to resource availability and the size of certain systems).
  • BinaryOrangeBinaryOrange Posts: 244Member
    Hmm, I didn't notice that the revamp of the revamp clarified that you can still use the Personal Edition until you hit 100k of revenue. So it looks like I can finish my current project in Unity after all. <br /><br />This is good, but I still will eventually port it to Godot, once I learn how to use Godot's file system. It's a bit more complicated than in C#.  :P <br /><br />EDIT: Well, actually, it doesn't look like the file system in Godot is really that much more complicated, it's just different. <br /><br />I have been going over the example in the documentation again and again, and it seems fairly straightforward. I think I will work on porting my game to Godot now, as I don't really feel comfortable in Unity anymore. <br /><br />I want to give Godot as much of a boost as I can. So that's what I will do!
  • KioriKiori Posts: 246Member
    @BO<;br />You will have to adjust to some concepts and ideas, but all in all it's a worth while task. I mean think about it, you'll be using a free open source engine, which is effectively yours and limit-free. So specially considering the long term, it's really worth it.
  • BinaryOrangeBinaryOrange Posts: 244Member
    on 1467075345:
    <br />@BO<;br />You will have to adjust to some concepts and ideas, but all in all it's a worth while task. I mean think about it, you'll be using a free open source engine, which is effectively yours and limit-free. So specially considering the long term, it's really worth it.<br />
    <br /><br />Yes, that is all what originally drew me towards Godot. The fact that it is free in every sense of the word was a huge "selling" point for me.  G: <br /><br />Thankfully, converting save systems hasn't been difficult at all. I realized I could really over-simplify the example and combine the save system with a Singleton class, so that all of the data is contained in one globally accessible script. I will probably post about it in my blog at some point this week after I test it more thoroughly, but for now it seems to be working. <br /><br />Related back to Unity in general, I wonder if someone should create a Unity to Godot guide to help users get more in-tune to Godot when they first open it up. I might write to the GameFromScratch guy and see what he thinks. I am horrid at writing any sort of tutorials, otherwise I would do it myself.
  • eye776eye776 Posts: 15Member
    Frankly I forsee a lot of users who are not very invested (monetarily) in Unity (eg:it's their first/second project) will probably leave for Unreal, CryEngine (which is now also free) or any other of the umpteenth other similar C# engines on the market (Wave, Atomic, Shiva, Xenko). Some of them will probably also cross paths with Godot.<br /><br />In my experience, a lot of people don't even know Godot exists.<br />Unity didn't become the powerhouse it is because it's the best/easiest to use engine (hasn't been since 2010). Word of mouth and the "Made with unity" splash screen.<br /><br />Godot has a lot going for it, its 2D prowess is nothing short of incredible.<br />But it also has a lot of catching up to do on the 3D side.<br />The inability to import "individual" skinned meshes is, personally, a big no-no for me.
  • zadigzadig Posts: 28Member
    My team once had to use unity in a 2 months project due to demands of the hiring part. In short, what we got for the many bucks the company was spending (considering it was a startup):
    ·Lots, I mean lots of bugs;
    ·Terrible costumer support - none of the bugs we reported were fixed;
    ·No cross-platform solution considering the entire team was composed of Linux users.

    I have nothing good to say regarding Unity - maybe only the fact that many good games were created using the engine, but that's not a technical merit.
    The first project I am creating using Godot faced none of the buggy issues I saw in Unity. It really is a matter of what the market is used to work with; Where I live (Brazil) I'd say 95% of the job positions in the gaming industry require Unity knowledge, the major part of to deal exclusively with Unity projects.

    I really hope this new pricing scheme scares people enough to create an Unity user-base migration.
  • MegalomaniakMegalomaniak Posts: 2,507Admin
    edited August 2016
    Kiori said:
    I thought with the changes to "plus" removing the splash screen and revenue increase to 200k, now it's pretty good. You're talking $420 a year to do whatever you want in any platform in the engine, with all the features.

    If you're making real money off of games that's not too bad frankly. Until then you can use personal.

    I would choose Godot for other reasons, not financial.

    Reasons like engineering(I mentioned before), OSS, and frankly the fact that I have a bigger trust in the Godot devs, than in the Unity devs.

    Unity goes around i circles when adding new features...
    werd.

    I did have a problem with their pricing model back when they came out with the subscription model(unity 4 IIRC), the fault wasn't entirely on their side though. I should have known better than to try and use my visa debit card I guess.

    I subscribed for a year with monthly subscription, about $800 per year. Now since I had previously used my debit card just fine to pay for things on steam and elsewhere I expected it to work fine but for some reason after the first monthly payment the automatic charges just wouldn't go through.

    So I contacted their support and after about a month I got a reply from their customer support saying that they can't help me and that I will be contacted by a third party to solve the issue. Another month later I finally got contacted by a guy from a US(WTH? I'm an EU citizen buying something from a EU branch of a company, the hell...) company who took another month to actually help me get the full years subscription payed via wire transfer, jeesh... by the time everything was sorted I was already 4 months in to my subscription and had only gotten to use unity pro for a month.

    Needless to say at that point I didn't really feel like doing anything with unity and haven't been back since.

    As for the reason I was going for the pro license: I found the indie versions renderer to be very limited for the sort of things I like to do. Now with godot I'm essentially back in that exact same point, still limited by the renderer but at least I know that a new renderer is on it's way and that I will get it when it's ready without $800(+ some assets/plugins I had purchased! Well over a K invested into it) strings attached.

    Mind you I'm the kind of OSS user who's willing to financially support the project. I have invested quite a bit into blender over the years for an example. But I do prefer to finance specific things if possible. I.E. Should there be some kind of fundraiser for the renderer work I'd be willing to support that.
  • SuryaSelSuryaSel Posts: 21Member
    I'm not very sure of Unity's changes making Godot more popular. There's always the other behemoth called Unreal that people are gonna flock to. It has a massive presence, larger community, detailed docs and resources and lastly, absolute noobs (like me) who're jus' testing out the waters are just drawn in by the Visual Scripting interface (Blueprints) gets you prototyping right off the bat to some tangible result. This may not work out too well, though, in the long run, but that's not the point here. Both Godot and Unity, by the looks of it, need a little bit of patience till you actually see something even remotely resembling a game on screen, and this makes a huge difference when pandering to the potential userbase.

    Oh yeah, and I almost forgot...Hi to all here, I'm new to the forums and thought I'll hop in to find out more on the engine, which has really got me interested from what I've read and seen so far. Thought of making small games as a hobby but yet to decide on an engine, just testing the waters before diving. So I can definitely give you what a newcomer with zero experience feels like ;)
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