Stop killing games - European Citizens' Initiative

kuligs2

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

Guys, Im gonna shill this one, i already signed last year, thought we would have it easy but it seems peoples are lazy.

In short for uninitiated - this is initiative for EU gov to (if the petition passes the 1 000 000 signature threshold) start conjuring up law that would fix this problem where some garbage TOS of games gives permission for developers/publishers just to end the game, killing it. Its like if you buy a milk, leave it in the fridge, but then one day the milk corp comes knocking down your door, and taking milk back because it just decided to end the milk support, and you havent even finished your milk.. This is plain robbery. We see this in other services that ye use - netflix snoy and stuff.

Im all against this robbery. If you bought it you own it.

The site above explain everything in more details. But direct link https://eci.ec.europa.eu/045/public/#/screen/home

For ease of use, you need to have electronic ID to sign this in 2min. Otherwise visit the site https://www.stopkillinggames.com/ there are detailed step by step explanation for most countries.

Deadline is near, by the end of this months.

Come on guys, do your part.

Toxe

kuligs2 Right, good stuff. I already signed it.

Tomcat

kuligs2 Im all against this robbery. If you bought it you own it.

You didn't buy a game, you bought a service. By buying it, you agree to the user agreement. I don't see the problem — if you are not happy with this situation — just stop buying games. Then publishers and developers will be forced to reconsider their approach. And the way it's done here — this petition is just an empty and pointless waste of time.

xyz

Tomcat Yeah, once SaaS has become widely normalized it doesn't make much sense to legally eliminate it just from one segment of the software market. The petition should really be about outlawing SaaS as such but that's fighting windmills in this day and age when there is enormous corporate power backing it.

kuligs2

Tomcat just stop buying games.

I already have, maybe one or two past 2 years.. and the last game i bought, SNOY took away the liberties i was allowed from me for a year then returned it back, since that day they took it away, i have stopped playing.. ofc i tried to get refund since officially the game was banned from being sold in my area, but steam said no..

Sure its easy to say its pointless, but this is atleast doing something rather doing nothing and be happy about the SAAS.

Also, if everything is SAAS and there is nothing else, then what am i as a consumer to do about it? Just gargle up what publishers slop throw at you and be happy?.. Yeah..

Tomcat

kuligs2 Sure its easy to say its pointless, but this is atleast doing something rather doing nothing and be happy about the SAAS.

Doing meaningless things and consoling yourself with it is not very constructive. But your right (for now).

Also, if everything is SAAS and there is nothing else, then what am i as a consumer to do about it? Just gargle up what publishers slop throw at you and be happy?.. Yeah..

One consumer won't do anything. But if we band together... a mass refusal to buy can force a reaction to the situation..... perhaps in a paradoxical way. But we're getting into politics here.

ofc i tried to get refund since officially the game was banned from being sold in my area, but steam said no..

Unite with those who also demand compensation and refunds. For starters. And work together.
Call for Steam to be ignored.
Stop promoting Steam, at least.

kuligs2

Tomcat I dont think its meaningless. Its something rather than nothing and live as usual like everything is ok.

Sure, that iniciative is their special wants but its a precedent in the gaming politics. Nothing like this has been done before on such scale. We will not know for long time what gov will decide but it sure better be for the better good.

I dont play my steam game library, my steam friends are all dead to me almost. Slowly going back to the high sea.

As you traverse high seas you encounter interesting personalities along the the way. The future is not so bleak if the gov fails us, so dont worry.

Im hoping with this, the gov willl start asking the right question to the corpos, and maybe stop that SAAS bullcrap. Atleast for the things we buy not as a subscription.

For subscriptions i have no problems, it clearly states that you pay monthly or yearly and get access, but games? You pay once and then sometime later maybe in 1 week maybe in 10 years you wont own it anymore.. That is not a SAAS.. this is something else.

Tomcat

Toxe but our world is obscured, opaque and confusing on purpose.

Confused by whom, why and for what purpose?

kuligs2 Im hoping with this, the gov willl start asking the right question to the corpos, and maybe stop that SAAS bullcrap.

Why should the government question corporations? Whose interests are closer to the government — yours or the corporations'?

Toxe

Initiatives like this are good simply because most people aren't informed and aware of what they are actually doing or buying. This is true for every part of life and simply saying "it's your own fault if you support this, just stop buying it" is just shortsighted. Sure, it would be nice if everyone is informed and knowledgeable (just look at politics) but our world is obscured, opaque and confusing on purpose. Before you can change people's minds you need to raise the issue first, which this does.

kuligs2

Tomcat Whose interests are closer to the government — yours or the corporations'?

Ultimately people's. Apple got fined and had to embrace USB-C. Also apple had to allow EU citizens to have custom app store to install apps not approved by apple outside apple eco system. These are just few examples. Trust me, there is a lot of money in gaming industry. If Gov has a potential to fine some EA type company then its very juicy and is good for the consoomer.

Remember loot boxes? Well not anymore thanks to EU regulation.

There was barking about not allowing in game credits like v-bucks and garbage like that but im not following that drama.

Toxe people aren't informed and aware of what they are actually doing or buying.

People are slowly waking up to the fact that they dont own nothing, and then wake up with out adobe account. (not a user of adobe).
Governments are ditching microsoft and now using linux and foss software in their work - another wake up call.. In recent years i saw many headlines about this drama.

To me personally the last straw was with SNOY. When they made a move with account linking STEAM to PSN and removed 170 countries from acccessing the store on steam to buy the game. Many EU countries aswell (mine incl.) THey didnt took away the game from me, but i was not able to access the store page, and raise an issue with steam support to get a refund. Steam told me to go ask the publisher, but how the hell i know who was the publisher when i cant access the store page from the country i bought the game from.. the whole store page was gone. Not just you cant buy it.. whole page.. - insane.

Anyways, due to that i protested this by not playing the game. My friends did the same. Shame it was fun, until it was not.

Tomcat

Toxe This is true for every part of life and simply saying "it's your own fault if you support this, just stop buying it" is just shortsighted.

Justify how this is shortsighted? Boycott is the most effective (in fact, the only) form of protest available to ordinary citizens.

Tomcat

kuligs2 Ultimately people's.

However, if we consider that governments and corporations are mostly people (for now), there is some sense in this statement.

Apple got fined and had to embrace USB-C. Also apple had to allow EU citizens to have custom app store to install apps not approved by apple outside apple eco system.

These are battles of standards, a form of corporate warfare. Someone's ~~kun-fu~~ lobbying is stronger than Apple's.

Well, let's see how your hopeless case ends.

kuligs2

We need a little bit more of your help GUYS! We can do it!!

The site is spazzing out, everyone is ddossing it with refresh requests

See you on the other side

Toxe

It's done: 1,004,909

But the more the better.

kuligs2

Toxe Just like th ebig man said himself, there might and most likely be fakes and errors, we need 40% over the limit.. either way, for 1 week its pretty good result..

xyz

I can't remember any petition that actually achieved what it was aiming for. What's effective is either financial pressure or pitchforks.

Erich_L

Tomcat I agree, boycotting is an important tool. I don't think people remain "in the dark" for long especially after having something they've paid for become unavailable at some point.

Now onto regulation. I'd say you'd only ask for it if you really, really need it. The more our industry becomes regulated, the more expensive it becomes for newer companies to enter the industry with new ideas.
Cars can kill- it doesn't bother me that as a small entrepreneur I'll never be able to get a company selling lawn mower engines strapped to makeshift mopeds off the ground. But I do want to continue being able to have an opportunity to get my game dev career off the ground.

kuligs2

Erich_L The fundamentals are obvious dont you think? If you paid for something - fixed price, then it should be yours. The "industry" is too comfortable selling us subscription masked as ownership. And then every few years they jack up the prices because its too expensive to make games...

I hope this garbage stops, otherwise - high seas. And then yes, the small developers that practice the same bull will get hurt too.

Erich_L

kuligs2 It "should be" yes, but that fixed price doesn't include hosting some services that supported the transaction for eternity. The only reason I buy games on steam is that I'm very confident steam is going to be around for a long time.

kuligs2

Erich_L I'm very confident steam is going to be around for a long time.

Now, do i as gamer need to worry about the developer problems? That's not a Me problem, that's, You problem (dev).

Look, games from 30 years ago are still playable today. How come that games developed in 2025, where you have so many open source free tools, cant make it work?

I dont know the whole licencing thing but the MMO thing, i remember there was the korean MMO - MU online v0.99 - 0.97, you could download the server and set it up to play with friends. no BS. Many big communities made their own local servers, and even made "stores" where you could buy trade items etc..

Now to the steam. Steam is a private company. Once they are finished with this BS business they can just shut down.. maybe they getting old and want to retire or something, who knows.. king in a castle..

If game has subscription, that's fine by me. But if you have "sell" a good, and then 10 years later take that good away from me, that is not right.

Im not the right person to argue with about the legality, but i want to own things that i bought. If i buy subscription then it should say when its gon end, Just like any other thing, other than video games.

xyz

kuligs2 Last time I checked, plenty of games bought via Steam can run without Steam client/server. Don't buy games that can't.

As for developer's servers going defunct thus making a strictly online game useless, you can't really say the developer cut you off from the software you own. The thing you bought is a client software (if no subscription model was involved). It's yours forever and you can run it until the end of time, just that it has nothing to connect to if the server is gone 🙂 I'm finding hard to believe that a regulation can be devised that forces developers to run servers indefinitely. That would really be unfair from the business perspective.

Other interesting thing is that games like that can run their course even without developers ever being responsible. For example if only a handful of people are still interested in logging in, the game can become unplayable/boring and only the customers are really responsible for that. Should the developer be forced by law to run the infrastructure in that case?

Erich_L

kuligs2 I mean I get where you're coming from but if you pay a flat price for something and they don't give you anything (they just let you connect to it) then you got scammed day one, you don't need to wait till they shut down to be upset.